John L Sullivan today

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banging 7 gram rocks. winning.

 

a lot of inconsistencies in there... but ok. we'll give sullivan the endorsements. my point about the endorsements was more that they are a stepping stone to becoming known and loved in the mainstream. the only people you mentioned there that are world famous are woods and tyson. both of them took a knock popularity-wise when their personal lives got exposed/went down hill.

 

ooo just re-read your list of examples, best is a good one. he drank a lot and he was huge in britain. i could definitely see sullivan acquiring that sort of status. just don't see it being a worldwide thing.

 

all got big before their images got tainted. i'm assuming that sullivan would be as he is from the start.

 

fair enough. i'll say this, he'd certainly be widely known.

 

You could argue that he'd be in mixed martial arts and not boxing. Probably looking something like:

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There is no doubt that when he rose through the ranks with the KO wins to become the World champion, he would have been loved. And a massive Tyson like Phonomena. Absolutely massive. In fact, the media would be all over the 4 round challenge and this would make him easily the biggest star because of todays media technology. In fact, despite the internet trolls hyping each challenge, he would defeat them each time regularly and by inarguable 4 round KO. Even the winner who drops down 20 times might almost certainly be stopped under todays rules although i suppose we can assume it happened. It would only add to the legend. Tyson had a similar legend and he took longer than 4 rounds to beat most fighters.

His out of ring acts were mostly drunk and disorderly acts (nothing really), but he did have some major alleged blow ups with high ranking officials from memory one was because he refused to acknowledge the Queen as being superior to the US (or something similarly patriotic). Obviously the press would blow his actions out of proportion (as Sullivan alleges his own press did), but the Queen incident in particular would probably only strengthen his popularity in most of the world.

I think that it would all add to his persona as the baddest man on the planet, so long as he didnt cross the line with Jail time. By the time of the equivalent of the Kilrain comeback he would be the biggest and most loved star ever. No matter what happens, the media absolutely loves champion acts (See George Foreman comeback) and forgives all quickly, if it means a story. I think this would see all sins forgiven and most would be supportive when the Next Corbett comes through and beats him, even if he had ducked a few contenders. One can only assume that Corbett would be an alphabet champion.

The comeback against McCormick would have been a much, much bigger affair. In todays environment, he would be easily hyped as a title threat and while there would be the smart doubters, if Sullivan wanted a shot, he could have found enough easybeats to get one. In fact, it probably even would have been for an alphabet title, so even by doing the same thing as he did in his own time, he would probably end up a 3 or 4 time champion, beating about 10 world champions, including at about50 years old (or however old he was against McCormack).

 

This is an interesting analysis and point though. His MMA record would see him as undefeated world champion, winning every fight by KO within 4 rounds (probably much sooner) including the advanced age win against MMA champion the Kilrain equivalent. This would surely make him an even bigger Boxing star and idol wouldnt it.

 

It'd be huge if a fighter held titles in both the MMA and boxing. At the moment it's impossible to see it happen.

A fighter willing to take on any comer, without time for promotional politics, would certainly be well-received by the media and fans. The truth is that the heavyweight division and boxing in general needs a fighter who is willing to risk it all in his search for greatness and glory. Once we thought David Haye could be the man, but we were all disappointed until now.

This doesn't mean that Sullivan would necessarily be the "man" as he admitted to hiding behind the "color line" so as not to lose his title to Peter Jackson. Disregarding that he did seem willing to face about anybody with either gloves or no gloves, though he preferred to have the gloves on.

 

But this would have been after his second or third reign as undisputed title. Not too different in all honest to Lennox ducking Byrd and Ruiz at the end of his last reign.

I am not so convinced that we couldnt have a dual champion. I know that the Toney loss set boxing back, but honestly, could you see that happening to either Klitchsko. Who, you would presume, would both have twice the wrestling strength of Toney, are in far better shape, and hit an awful lot harder.

And of course, there is the other danger, that it is only so long before an MMA champion has the natural talent of a roy jones Jr or someone similar, and they certainly seem from the outside (klitchskos and one or two others aside) to train every bit as hard as modern boxers.

Is it only a matter of time before someone on either side makes the leap and gets huge money because of it. I know i would fancy prime Tyson's chances, if he was around today.

 

A champion today would never risk taking on all comers in a similar tour as John L did. accidents happen. even if the champion wanted to do it would the ruling bodies or his manager and agents allow it? all challengers would have to be licensed for a start.

John L took prize fighting from the underground into a more accepted mainstream with his tours. Prize fighting, however popular, was a small cliché of fighters good enough to be backed to train for showdowns with other prize fighters and were few and far between. by taking their show on the road taking on the locals they made a living between proper fights with other prize fighters. Sullivan did this as a champion. Because he had fought internationally he was more accepted as a "worlds champion" and his tours was huge.

Had there been TV and internet some of John L's tours would have been shown up for what they were. I have read that some of these all comer challenges were farcical and they only got away with it because the small towns and settlements the champ toured were only too glad to have some national exposure because it would be reported where Sullivan went.

They say by the second great exhibition tour Sullivan couldn’t stay off the drink. if a challenger was a bit too feisty he would grapple them over to one side of the ring and poke his opponents head into a curtain where a man with a club would hit his from the other side of the curtain. This kind of thing would be exposed today and effect his credibility. However, he was said to have been fully fit for his first coast to coast great tour and genuinely impressive enough.

 

I think Sullivan would do well with the media today. Assuming he was champion is the hard part.

 

He might have to keep his long term live in relationship with a prostitute under wraps.As well as his propensity to punch out lippy bartenders.
He got a free pass for his peccadilloes back in the 1800's because of his complexion, today's society might not be so forgiving.
THankfully there are some people who now judge a man by the colour of his deeds rather than his skin, of course that does not include all people.:naughty