John L Sullivan v MIke Spinks?

Even if Sullivan did fight like McGovern (and I don't think he did), this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9O9DlFq5FM[/ame]



...does not look that much like either Dempsey or Tyson.



I don't see why we're relying primarily on newspaper accounts when we actually have a little bit of footage, drawings from boxing experts, and multiple photographs of Sullivan vs. Kilrain. The fighter you see in those sources doesn't look like a Tysonesque fighter. At all.



Footage:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHvPHmaqYF4[/ame]


Photos:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_-_Kilrain_Fight
http://www.antekprizering.com/photoarchiveimagesullkil.html
http://www.britannica.com/bps/media-view/96319/1/0/0

James Boyle O'Reilly's analysis of the way Sullivan fought, complete with sketches:

http://books.google.com/books?id=EPEWAAAAYAAJ&dq=ethics+boxing+manly+sport&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=dZ1oO0o7Zt&sig=ZAQbYHkp2mueR1YG17YfaOxN2BA&hl=en&ei=TQhvSue6F6OBtwfWxf3fCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=ethics%20boxing%20manly%20sport&f=false

 

Taking your points in turn.

Contemporary observers compared McGovern to both Sullivan and Dempsey, the latter comparison especialy was banded about a lot. Even based on the paltry footage we have of McGoven, some similarities are obvious.

The reason why we have to rely on contemporary accounts to interpret Sullivans style, is because the photographs from the Killrain bout only show him in a LPR bout where he would undoubtedly have employed different style and tactics. The references to Sullivans low crouching rushing style, are too manifold to dismiss them all. He was clearly using verry different tactics in his short gloved fights.

I am confident that my assesment of his gloved fighting style is accurate in its broad essentials.

 

A few thoughts:

1) How many of the people comparing Sullivan to Dempsey had seen both as adults? And were they talking about the very broad outlines of style, or saying that they fought in basically the same way?

2) O'Reilly is sketching Sullivan's style with gloves.

3) Fighters don't change their approach that much when the rules change. Sullivan went for the early KO under gloved and LPR rules, as the Ryan bout shows. Also, he didn't suddenly switch from being a peekaboo swarmer to a standoff fencer in a slight crouch for the sake of an LPR bout. Such a massive change would have been impractical.

4) Sullivan clearly crouched by the standards of his day (a bunch of straight-legged, standup fencers), and also attacked in rushes. I don't see how that makes him like Tyson -- even if you're using the paper sources and completely disregarding all of the footage and photos of him.

5) Leaving aside the minutiae for a moment: we have the photos, sketches, and footage. They all point to an aggressive guy who fought from a very, very shallow crouch. Doesn't it make a lot more sense to go with what we see than to try to wring excessive meaning out of a couple sentences comparing him with Dempsey?