John L Sullivan v.s Jack Dempsey

Sullivan was 5' 10" and weighted in the mid 180's in shape. When he beat Paddy Ryan he was about 182. Dempsey was 6' 1" and 188.

How is Sullivan the bigger man ?

Adam is the Sullivan expert here but to say he was more skilled than Dempsey is a statement I don't agree with because I have zero evidence to support it. Dempsey is highly under rated by many as a fighter from a skill perspective . In the ring I like Dempsey but what a street fight it would have been... :yikes

 

Oh, I had heard he was over 200 pounds. Bigger than normal for his time.

 

Dempsey Would Bust Up Sullivan In The Midsection , Sullivan Would Think It Was Steelnuckles Not Barenuckles...dEMPSEY BY ko

 

esb protacol says that because JLS was born in 1858 and Dempsey was born in 1895 that there is no contest here, John L. thrashes him within an inch of his life before the instructions are over.

 

Sullivan scaled 198 for the Ryan fight,according to Fleischers "Heavyweight Championship"

 

I think that it is probably also fair to say that Sullivan had the better chin.

I could be wrong, but i get the opinion that Sullivan relied on straighter punches, and was a little more comfortable fighting at range more, as he clinched and wrestled when in close.

As good as Dempsey is, (and you cant really have an idea without footage) but i think that i may agree with you, There is no area where dempsey is naturally or actually better.

It certainly would be interesting to see how John Ls two handed jostling of the hands would go against a more modern style employed by Jeffries. There is probably no real reason why it could not work.

 

People seem to be overrating Sullivan here. Saying he was faster? Based on what? Dempsey on film has atg hand and foot speed for a heavyweight. At his best weight Sullivan wasn't that much bigger than Dempsey either, and Dempsey had the height and reach advantages. Dempsey also had better power and probably more skill and polish. Dempsey would brutalize John L.

 

Every see photos of Sullivan at 200 ? He looks like a fat slob. Weights were wildly recorded in Sullivans day but most sources have him in the low 180's in his prime and early big fights.

Any interested in Sullivan should read Adam Pollack's excellent book ... a great resource ...

 

Of course we do not have film of Sullivan but he seems to have been an exceptional puncher.

Nobody in his own era had seen a heavyweight with his combination of speed and power before. Some contemporary observers said that his hand speed was on a par with Joe Choynski who is cat quick on film.

 

Dead on ... There is no disputing his power ... Sullivan was flattening men like no one before him ...in his prime he was reputed to have excellent speed, stamina, power and a great chin. However, Sullivan was almost exclusively self taught ... I really do not think it is fair to measure him against gloved era fighters.

In many ways his greatest ring accomplishment was going almost 21 three minute rounds against a prime Corbett under M of Q rules at a very old 33.9 years of age. It showed some of his exceptional gifts and what he could have been in a later era if trained for M of Q fighting ... and if he was not a drop dead drunk ...

 

How can we know, people just say Dempsey because we seen him in action ete. But I put this as a big question mark imo. Sullivan is far from the unskill bar room brawler of legend, he was feiting with Corbett in that mock fight they had.

So Sullivan must of have some defense to his skills in his hey day. Also book reports Sullivan for a fast guy for a man of his size. But it is a hard match up to determind a winner because of the lack of footage of Sullivan.
We do know Sullivan can hit, was tough, and had stimia.
I belive that if Dempsey doesnt blow Sullivan out in the early rounds, we may be in for a shocking outcome for most people.
I favor Dempsey. But Sullivan was a great also, so we cant just write him off.

 

i dont see how anyone can say sullivan prob. had a better chin---what proof dempsey has 1 ko loss on his record when he first became pro wich was reported to be a dive,i watched him walk threw blows that would knock a ****in horse down,he ko the same dude i think 1 or 2 years later almost to the day in like 22 seconds -the chunky sullivan always stands a punchers chance but against jacks underrated chin,power,speed,and boxing skill he dont survive the 6th round i.m.o.

 

Corbett,commenting on Sullivan after their exhibition said to his manager "I can lick this fellow ,he is a sucker for a feint".

 

Well Dempsey was knocked down an awful lot more than Sullivan was, Especially when in or closer to his prime.

Not that Dempsey had a poor chin or anything, but it is doubtful that it was as good as Sullivans. Sullivans chin seems to be as good as anyone's.

 

To me Dempsey's bob and weave style would play havok with Sullivan's timing. I don't think John L. had ever seen a style quite like Dempsey's before.