John L Sullivan vs Bob Fitzsimmons

I think Fitz would be too clever also he was a huge hitter and Sullivan was more of a swarmer ala Patterson, never a good mix IMO

I can see Sullivan coming out to fight and perhaps taking the first few rounds but Fitzsimmons starts to time his rushes and land good counters and stop him late on.

Prime for prime thats how i see it.

 

I like Fitz late on ,but Sullivan in his prime was a dangerous fighter ,by all accounts he had good handspeed and power,he overwhelmed many fighters .
Fitz would time him coming in and start to connect with pin point power shots,to take the steam from Sullivan's attack.
Fitz by late stoppage.

 

almost exactly what i said

great minds think alike

 

At the time the fight was scheduled, I thing Fitzsimmons would have prevailed. If somehow we could have prime against prime, I would bet on Sullivan.

 

See also this thread:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4870

Apollack, who's bio'd both men, gives his nod to Sullivan (prime vs prime).

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Sullivan was something of a swarmer. On the other hand, there are quite a few contemporary statements that Sullivan was difficult to hit cleanly.

 

When Sullivan was aging, i'd pick Fitz by KO. However, prime for prime, i think Sullivan would out-brawl him, especially if it's bareknuckle boxing.

 

So Sullivan was like a Dempsey or Patterson.

I just think Fitzsimmons had the right style to defeat him

 

Fitz by stoppage. He had more skill, and for my money hit harder too.

 

A prime, properly trained Sullivan takes them all through Johnson ...

 

I totally agree. However, at this point in time, Sully was extremely dilapitidated (sp). Fitz might take him here. Prime for prime, Sully wins.

 

janitor do you not think theres a stylistic advantage in favour of Fitz in this mnatch up P4P

 

A smattering of observations (I haven't given this a whole lot of thought, so I'm thinking out loud here):

1) Fitzsimmons has the height advantage here, and it's even greater when one considers that Sullivan might have been a croucher (at least by 1890s standards). For more details, see: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4581520

2) Fitzsimmons had trouble with Jeffries' crouch, although Jeffries' probing left wouldn't be an issue here because Sullivan (as far as I can tell from the clips of him) kept his hands reasonably close to his body, and his left down.

3) Sullivan looped some of his punches. It would be harder for Fitzsimmons to lean away from these as compared to straight punches--which were more usual at this point.

4) Sullivan had some pretty good handspeed, which is one of the things that allowed Corbett to trouble Fitz so much.

5) As Bummy pointed out in the thread mentioned above, Sullivan was a pretty good clincher and may be able to immobilize Fitz if he gets nailed.

6) Fitzsimmons' chin is extremely tough for a middleweight. The man survived Jeffries, Ruhlin, and Sharkey for a lot longer than any 160-odd pound man should have been able to.

7) If Bummy's comment that Sullivan would be vulnerable to the hook is accurate (especially on the inside) that might pose problems. Fitzsimmons' photographs and the 22 minute footage of his fight with Corbett make it clear that he was very good at slipping short shovel-ish hooks into his opponent's body and head.

8) Sullivan lunged forward and extended himself, especially with the right. A lot of Fitzsimmons' style is designed to lean away and then get back into the face of a lunging opponent (see "Physical Culture and Self-Defense" on Google Books and/or Lulu.com. It's free to download, so I highly recommend it).

9) A lot of Fitz's sneakier stuff is done against a lead left. Sullivan didn't use this as much. A lot of his circular and side-to-side footwork relied on the opponent leading with his left.

10) Fitz massacred Sharkey, who fought a bit like John L.

11) Sully keeps his left hand in a guard position when he throws his right, which is very nice considering Fitz's penchant for coming at you after you've thrown a right.



So the way I see this fight developing is:


If Sullivan paws too high with his left (I doubt it, since he kept it pretty low), then Fitzsimmons will have a field day. Same if he measured his opponent with his left. The more likely scenario is that Sullivan waits on the outside trying to land his right hand, feinting until he sees an opening. Fitz isn't able to take advantage of his height by jabbing at Sullivan, since he didn't seem to have much of a jab. Instead, he patiently waits until the right arrives, and tries to block it or (more likely) leans away from it. The loopiness of some of Sully's rights would make things interesting, and it's quite possible that he ends up getting clipped. If not, he'll lunge in with a few shovel-hooks to the body and head at half-range until Sullivan manages to tie him up, then the whole process starts over again.

Most of this hinges on how good Sullivan's feints were. If they were good, then he probably lands his right and gets Fitz out of there--his superior handspeed would be the telling difference. If not (and depending on how loopy his right is), then Fitzsimmons lands a couple of his odd tight hookercuts as Sullivan's lunging and/or before he manages to clinch and reset.

The only footage of Sullivan's feinting ability is available on Youtube (just look up Sullivan sparring with Corbett; it's under 30 seconds long). I'll leave you guys to be the judges--SuzieQ, if I recall correctly, rated Sullivan's feinting skills very highly.