john l sullivan vs David haye..who wins ?

Sullivan was a slob.

No more than the local pub bouncer by todays standards.

Haye via KO in 1.

 

That pic is priceless. Can you imagaine anyone with:

1. That Stance
2. That Guard
3. That Gut
4. That Moustauche

beating the likes of David Haye???? Bollocks

 

You know verry well that his photograph was taken seven years after Sullivan retired when he weighed about 270lbs. Frankly it appears that you are wilfuly trying to exploit peoples ignorance by presenting something you know to be misleading.

I can asure you that the only way he would ever have been able to make the lhw limit would be to cut a leg off. He only ever weighed under 200lbs for bareknuckle fights to the finish, where stamina was at an absolute premium and even then only verry early in his career.

His tale if the tape shows that he had a huge build for a fighter of 5' 10'' and was probably larger than Joe Frazier.

 

He didn't fight out of that stance or with that guard.

Haye dosn't even have a guard.

Since when has a moustache made any difference.

 

No it wasn't.

I cannot find any record of Sullivan weighing less than 200 lbs in a gloved contest.

 

It's always a tough ask comparing fighters from different era's especially ones over a hundred years separated. But the truth is, we are talking about a true atg vs a guy not even in the top two of his current weight class. There really is no room for comparison.

 

You could be right but he did weigh around 200 pounds in his best condition. According to reports he even got down to 207 in training as far as the Corbett fight. Usually he did not take training or his opponents too seriously.

 

I guess we have to ask what data we have from the real world to asses his size.

His weights as cited for fights have to be treated with caution, because weigh ins were not enforced for heavyweight fights back then. If a man said he weighed 210 lbs, it was seldom questioned. There is also some evidence that Sullivan came into the ring heavier than the weigh in as many fighters of this period did.

Setting aside our doubts about the quoted weights, he seems to have been over 200lbs for all his queensbury fights and to have ranged up to 230 while giving exhibitions several times a day.

His tale of the tape is probably fairly reliable, although the methods of measuring certain dimensions were not standardised. We know that he was 5' 10'' tall and probably had a 74'' reach. I consider the former figure to be more reliable than the latter. His chest an biceps measuremnts are up there with Jeffries and Liston.

The tale of the tape data makes the idea that he was coming in over 200lbs for most of his fights seem plausible.

 

Under Sullivan's rule set...bring out the stretcher for Haye.

Under a modern rule set, I think its best to wait and see how Haye's career plays out. Haye has not beaten a prime or near prime top 10 guy yet unless you consider his win over an old and slow Valuev as exhibit A, when haye looked scared to engage until the final round.

Haye's best test might have been vs. a past his prime Barrett, and Haye looks to have escaped an official knockdown in that one.

 

Yes.

 

Just to put things into perspective:

------------------John L Sullivan ---Jim Jeffries------------Sonny Liston
Height -----------5-10½ -----------6-2½------------------6-1
Reach ------------74 ---------------76½-------------------84
Chest/Norm. ----43 ----------------43---------------------44
Chest/Exp. ------48 ----------------48½------------------46½
Biceps -----------16¼ --------------16--------------------16½
Neck -------------18 ----------------18¼------------------17½
Wrist -------------16 ----------------17¾------------------16

You won't find dimensions like these on Joe Frazier.

 

jeffries almost 6ft. 3??
In pictures with JJ he looks as tall as him, perhaps shorter...and JJ was 6.ft 1 at best.

 

I think that 6' 1½'' is most likley.

The 6' 2½'' figure that is often banded about might have started out as a typo, or it might be the kind of masaging of a fighters height that still happens today.

 

No it was taken at 210-220, no way is this 5'10 weakly muscled man below 220lbs and yes he'd easily make 175 if he got in shape and kicked his alcoholism for a few months

This content is protected

 

It's not so much a question of size, but one of ruleset and hence, styles.