john l. sullivan vs prime bowe...

NOt in Australia, we would have been paying to see Peter Jackson clean house:bart

 

If you look very carefully you can see that the photo from earlier in the thread has 1898 written in the lower left hand corner and also the letters ....D K. Fox - presumably Fox of Police Gazette fame. This would suggest that the photo was either taken in 1898, or that it was published in the Police Gazette in 1898.

As regards the comment that Sullivan is not grey in this picture - well, I admit that he doesn't appear to be grey, however, newspaper reports of his Corbett fight claim that he was greying on the sides in 1892 - and we seem in agreement that this photo is post 1892. I believe the picture of Sullivan we are discussing was taken around the time of the photo below.

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I have no doubt that John L Sullivan was a very strong man with natural ability.. In those days, you had to posses such natural gifts, as they were rarely developed through standardized training.. His record, and stories written about him, suggest that he was very powerful, could knock men out with one punch, had incredible stamina, a good chin, and was most likely a very good street fighter.. I don't know anything about the men he fought, except for Corbett, but I'm guessing that he took on challengers who were highly thought of as very tough customers..

Someone has already posted a picture of Sullivan, but this was hardly a prime rendering.... Here are some that were probably taken in his prime, or close to it..

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http://www.getgeekstrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/john_l_sullivan.jpg


Here was his training facility for brief period in the late 19th century

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Spot on. Sullivan from the early 1880s, and not 1898.

 

Well, he didn't fight him and he famously stated "I'll never fight a negro, I never have and never shall." That sums it up for me. I know John L. may be some kind of hero to a lot of you, but the fact remains he was a biggot who wouldn't fight Peter Jackson and other black fighters. The truth may hurt to some of you.

 

A World Heavyweight Champion who would only fight one race of people. Some world champion. My use of the word chicken**** is definitely a stretch and I meant for it to be. My point is clear, John L. Sullivan openly stated "I'll never fight a negro, I never have and never shall." What does that tell you? That he was some great champion? Peter Jackson more than deserved a shot at the title and never got one. What do you say about "The Black Prince" who never got his shot? As far as me being a young man, I have studied the history of the sweet science as much as just about anyone and I don't see why some guy like John L. is supposed to be off limits because he is dead. John L. made his own decisions and I have every right to criticize him for not being a true world champion. He had to live with it and so do you. Don't be so sensitive.

 

Remember he lived in different times I am married to a chinese lady and have a six year old son with her he is having a huge birthday party and is one of the most popular kids in his school but if this were a century back he would have been an outcast and so would I, it is very hard to judge a person's humanity unless they were a political figure times and views have changed for the better thankfully.

 

And yet, drawing the colour line hurts Sullivans legacy less than it hurts those of Jim Jeffries, Jack Johnson, and Jack Dempsey.

Although he was by far the most racist of the group, there simply wernt any outstanding black challengers untill he was ready for the scrap heap anyway.

 

All in all, I give a flying mother of a duck........ '92 Bowe KO's 1887 John Sully pretty wickedly in a time machine.....
:good

MR.BILL:hat

 

I would like to explain thisone, but i think i might need a bit of help from Janitor or cross trainer, to be honest.

 

You want to defend your remark about the champ. So be it. I'm not being sensitive about it at all. The world of boxing, and the world in general has lots of people who think the same way you do. I have always known that and lived with it. I'm simply not into that type of high and mighty thinking...never have been. That's simply a small minded approach to a different era in time...in my opinion. You can sit on your 2010 horse, behind your 2010 computer screen, and take pot shots at dead ex-champions from another time all you want. Personally, my life has not been so flawless that I presume to judge a champ's motives from a time I don't fully understand. And I try to never call a man a name, from behind a computer screen, that I wouldn't call him to his face if he was alive, in his prime, and standing in front of me. It doesn't really matter to me what names you call ex-champs or other people for that matter. I can live with it. Now you have to live with this: I had some respect for you, as a true boxing fan, at one time...I thought you were a very sensible young boxing fan. Now that's gone. I can easily live with that! In fact, I doubt if I'll ever give it another thought after this post. "Chicken****" for not choosing fight a black man, for many reasons that you and I probably don't understand, huh? Good luck to you with that thinking! You may need it! You certainly may have needed some luck had you ever said it to John's face, or Jess's face, or Jack's face, or Gene's face!

 

Due to Sully's style, I'm inclined to believe and buy that he'd do well with post dude's like "Corby, Fitz, Jeff, Hart & Burns" in a time zone of each man's prime yrs, but Jackson Johnson would murder him.....

MR.BILL

 

Jackson and Johnson? Based on what, Skin Colour? It sounds like you would have fitted in okay in Sullys time.

 

I'm just saying that Ol' Sully was great for a certain time frame and era... His stand-up style and telegraphed shots would not go far with a more advanced technician like Johnson of 1908 thru 1912.......

Johnny Sully might get past a hulking mammoth like Jesse Willard, but that's about where the Ox stops in town.......

The entire lot of post 1920s heavies would prolly dice him up like a turkey on Thanksgiving day.......

MR.BILL

 

Like he murdered who? A Michigan middleweight drunk... no, that guy put him down. And the tiny whiskey running, hay seed from the hills of Kentucky... no, that guy beat him. The young Jewish lightheavy... oh wait, that guy KO'd him... I got it! THE SPINDLY featherfisted light heavy from Philly!... Oh wait, that guy also befuddled him into a draw...

But I believe you. There is no fighter the match for the illustrious Johnson, despite what all those pesky record books say.