John L Sullivan Vs Tony Galento (20rds MoQ)

Sullivan was not really a M of Q fighter .. He was a bridge between eras. He was never trained to box, never sparred. He was a physical phenom. His strengths were significant. Joe chop ski, who was in the ring w everyone from Sullivan to Johnson including the best of Australia and a murderous puncher himself said Sullivan was the hardest puncher he ever saw by far. Whatever can be said about him, Sullivan flattened men, a 185 pounder w Julian Jackson styled power. I believe from all I have read that he would have been a fierce all time cruiser if he was properly trained. It's importantbtomremember that for all the talk of Sullivan as the big man, he was only a shade over 5'10" and 185 to 188 or so at his best.

 

You are wrong on two counts here.

Sullivan was unequivocally a Queensbury specialist. He fought over a hundred bouts under Queensbury rules, and only three under LPR rules. He consistently refused to fight under LPR rules unless a title was at stake.

Sullivan’s best fighting weight was around 205lbs. He only came in under 200lbs once in his entire career, and that was for the Ryan fight early in his career.

 

i agree with this.

And it wasnt just the best fighters he showed incredible dominance over. I have my doubts whether or not even the great hitters like Tyson, Foreman, Louis etc could have gone on his whirlwind 4 round KO tours and had the same success rate. Certainly that didnt happen against many of the lesser lights these guys fought, and it was more common for poor fighters to last four rounds against these guys than it was against Sullivan. And i dare say that fighters against sullivan could use more dirty tricks such as dropping before being hit against Sullivan than they could against the other mentioned fighters. Even if you accept that the era was poor, his dominance was still incredible.

I also think that comparison/dominance over contemporaries is probably the only really fair way of ranking ATG's from different eras. There are too many other variables.

If we use this method, John L Sullivan as the ATG fighter is not completely out of the question.

 

No , you are wrong. He fought four round or less fights against a vast majority of men who were not even professional fighters. The rules were very lose at best although he did prefer to wear gloves. That does not make him a specialist when every champ after him fought professional prizefighters , three minute rounds that were never ended by a knockdown or "fall" and for much greater distances.

On the weight you are wrong again. He was in the low 180's for most of his pre title career and fought heavier after but it was due to being fat. Look at the differences in the photographs of his body through the years .. do you just make stuff up all the time ?

 

From all accounts, Sullivan in his prime was truly great. John L. in one.

 

"Janitor, you're another fact fragmenting last word freak and completely bore me .. your wrong .. I'll let another Sullivan guy go merry go round w you ."

Now janitor has been polite in disagreeing. IF his facts are wrong say why he grant.

And why insult him as a ;ast word freak? He has replied substantively & offered sources. The many times that you debate at length are you some kind of a defective freak?

This forum is centrally ABOUT debate, hopefully intelligent & polite.
I am amongst those who want to hear the truth debated & come out, to disparage someone offering an opinion absent malice or sarcasm, & act contemptuous, seem wrong.

 

Because I've been through this before time and again w him and it goes no where . Watch how he repeats with a response now. It's boring. I'm responding to you because you are new ( maybe ) and your question seems genuine. We'll see how that plays out too ..

 

What point would you like a primary source to support?

I am respectfully prepared to defend anything I have said.

 

I agree with the pick. Sullivan's build does not look like a lighting quick fighter.

 

Sullivan was famous for how quickly he got into punching range,his swift attack was seen as completely revolutionary in his time.:huh

 

For his time does not mean lighting quick compared to the field of history. Cars from 1910 were considered fast back then too.

It's clear Corbett was light years ahead of Sullivan in terms of speed and technique.

With limited film of Sullivan later in life hitting a bag, and weak opposition in the ring it's hard to quantify how good Sullivan was. I picture a very good puncher in a time when there were not a lot of punchers who never fought the best three men (Jackson, Slavin, or Goddard ) of his time.

 

We are not comparing Sullivan to Corbett we are comparing him to Galento,and Im happy to beleive he was significantly faster getting into punching range than slow as molasses Galento was .
At the age of 46 scaling 273 lbs Sullivan kod 218lbs Jack MCormick.

John L was a top flight hitter .

"He was powerful, quick, could hit with either hand but had exceptional strength in his right, and could take punishment; John L. could break a man's jaw with a single punch"