John Lester Johnson - Jack Dempsey put to rest

Yes, this is a common thing in ex-fighters' recollections.
They always weighed hardly anything and the other guy was Godzilla.
On the other hand, reported weights were often just made up too.

I wouldn't trust his memory. Not that it matters at all.
I'm not sure fighting a main event New York automatically means a fair deal. Some fighters have been robbed blind fighting world title fights. For example, Primo Carnera.

Still, $16 for Anderson still seems too low.

But $100 for J L Johnson seems very plausible.

Yes, that's another common thing in tales from ex-fighters, exaggerating the prowess of early opponents or difficulty of early fights.
He's building up Kenny at his own expense though, I suppose.

Still if $43 for Kenny is plausible, so is $100 for Johnson.

 

The bout was rather minor for New York, and if they mentioned both fighters weights at all in the next-day report, that must have meant something. Usually they didn't report weights at all for such bouts. Regardless, to claim that he only weighed 162 pounds, and that figure being so high only as the result of eating several breakfasts they were giving to the poor/homeless people in the street, is ridiculous.

Now if Dempsey fought a decade earlier, I might have believed in sums below $10, but this was in 1916. If you researched this period, inflation or whatever, but at least the gate receipts are much-much higher compared to 1900s or before, and are often measured in thousands. Fairmont Athletic Club wasn't some minor venue in a tiny town somewhere in the desert, this is one of the more popular NY clubs, holding weekly shows. And his bouts were finals both times, not semi-finals, not preliminary bouts, not curtain raisers, but main events. There's no word of extremely poor attendance in next-day reports. There're no reports I have seen where they would accuse the managers of the Fairmont A.C. of swindling when paying money to the participants of its shows. If I had to guess, I'd say he must have received far above $100, probably several hundred dollars as a main event fighter.

 

I honestly think his struggle here and his subsequent drawing of the colour line are completely coincidental.

The only two coloured fighters worth fighting whilst champ were wills and norfolk. Neither of whom would have been a favourite above him. No I think his colour line was a decision borne out of something other than fear.

Sigh, if only he'd have spent the hollywood years battling greb, wills and norfolk.

He'd be worthy my top 10 had that happened.

 

Hmmmm .....

.... living it up and messing around with starlets and showgirls in 1920s Hollywood

OR

... making it to lufcrazy's top 10, thirty years after his death.


:think

If only

 

There is nothing here I haven't read before.

Still looking for the part where Dempsey fought a single African American challenger during his rise and reign.

 

Why are you looking for that ?

 

Hah! This pretty much sums up these legacy arguments for me. These (Dempsey, Johnson) were hard guys who wanted a dollar and a little comfort out of life. The sport itself, as we know it, was only 20 to 30 years old. The concept of legacy was largely the onus of writers, who were also just out to make a buck.

 

If he wants to choose money over legacy that's fine it's his choice to make.

I'm a fan of boxing though, not the boxers themselves.

As a fan of the sport i'd much prefer to see the best fight the best rather than see the supposed best bang hollywood chicks.

 

In reality I think he'd have lost to greb who'd have gone on a very active charles-like reign before losing to tunney, probably securing himself a position as the consensus goat.

 

I'm a fan of boxing too.
But it all happened years before I was born so it never bothered me.
I didn't have to sit around for years complaining and getting annoyed that Dempsey wasn't defending his title.

And the truth is, I probably would never have expected to see him fight (maybe not even on film) if I was around in those days anyway.




Also, it's got to the point where I'd rather see Wladimir Klitschko banging Hollywood chicks that defending his title, if I'm honest.

 

So, if I start talking about fighting Wlad, I should be able to wear a strap of baubles around and proclaim myself champ?

 

Well, for one, his number one challenger for 5 or so years was barred from a chance at the crown because of his color.