John Lester Johnson - Jack Dempsey put to rest

he beat Gibbons, one of his greatest victories imo.

 

Leonard unified the titles, Foreman lost in his 3rd defence, Foster and Moore definitely fought the best they could.

I'm not sure what we're even debating any more because we both agree that had he beat Wills, Greb and Norfolk (do you have a better choice?) instead of going to hollywood, he'd have left a better legacy.

 

But you said "Wills and greb were the top 2 contenders and norfolk was the only other great of the era (aside from tunney who beat him) "

.... so, when you say "only other great of the era, aside from Tunney" ... you're only refering to the greats of the era who Dempsey did NOT fight or beat ?

 

They didn't fight as many top contenders as possible.
Many would seriously dispute the contention that Foster fought the best he could. And Moore's reign past 1954 is very debatable. I'm just saying.

3 extra wins is better than 0 fights, yes.
The same rule applies to every fighter.

 

b,a hard question for me as I go back a long, long time...My dad took me to the bouts when i was a pup...
But strictly on the bouts I saw ringside, and have had the most lasting effects on me, I'll give it a go...
1- Beau Jack/ Terry Young 1942....My dad took me to my first pro bout at
the old historic St Nicholas Arena where i first saw a new sensation called Beau Jack fresh from Augusta Georgia decision a tough Terry Young,in a donneybrook fight...I was hooked thereafter on boxing...
2-Ali/ Frazier, March 8, 1971 FOTC...Who can ever forget that night ? An event to remember forever...
3-Ray Robinson/ Randy Turpin, 1951.....My buddy and I saw this bout at the old Polo Grounds in Harlem...Paid good dough to sit about 25 rows from ringside and saw Ray Robinson cut badly on his eye and the referee
observing this and stopping the fight, Ray went all out in the 10th round in a last ditch effort to turn the tide of the fight and kod the TOUGH and very strong Randy Turpin...And I recall sitting about 10 rows in back of Gen. Douglas MacArthur and his entourage...
4- Rocky Graziano/ Billy Arnold 1945 MSG...A young grenade throwing Graziano was fed to the wolves against a new WW sensation from Philly named Billy Arnold, who kod just about everyone and was called
"the new Joe louis". Rocky was an 8-1 underdog in that fight and took a terrible beating from the heavy hitting Arnold...the ref was on the verge of stopping the bout ,but Rocky was a tough SOB then and unloaded a right hand on Arnold and flattened him in the 3rd round...We in the crowd went berserk and Graziano became the best attraction in boxing from that moment on and Billy Arnold became a shot fighter...There will never be another Rocky Graziano when he was COMING up...Thrills galore...
5-Ike Williams / Beau Jack, Philly 1948...My buddy and i, two youngsters ,took a bus to Philly for the fight and we saw a prime Ike Williams obliterate the great Beau Jack in the 6th round with Beau Jack helpess against the ropes his hands dangling, unable to fall, until the
ref stopped the slaughter...Ike williams in his prime was the best LW i ever saw, and the young Beau Jack was the most action packed fighter i ever saw...too, too bad there is NO film of the prime Beau Jack in action who SOLD out MSG SEVEN times in ONE year...To cap out that fight, my buddy and I after the bout took a bus to Atlantic City, where we were promptly arrested...True story, but i now digress...
So b ,i hope i answered your request ? cheers...

 

Yes sorry that's exactly what I meant. Norfolk would have been the remaining great by my reckoning.

 

Luffy, You say that Dempsey's legacy would have been enhanced if he fought Wills, Greb and Norfolk in his hiatus. Concentrating on Wills for the time being, we all know that the original plan was to fight Wills around the time of Dempsey tunney, or in the next fight after Dempsey Tunney.

What this means is that realistically, people are calling to fight Wills Dempsey would, in this time frame most likely occur around the time of Wills/Sharkey. Common results suggests that at this time Dempsey wins the fight comfortably. And even if he was to lose, there is the hollywood excuse, and as with Dempsey Tunney II, Dempsey will come back stronger. And fighting Wills around the time of the Uzcuden fight seems to suggest that Dempsey would obliterate him, probably worse than Uzcuden did. If he did, it would do what Louis Schmelling ii did to Louis or most other rematch wins. Demsey almost certainly comes out of this situation as the winner and Wills the big loser.

You would surely agree with that wouldnt you.

 

I'm not sure what your question is.

 

Would you not consider Gibbons, Miske and Levinsky to be great?

 

good stuff. i havent watched a few but ill look them up if their around. thanks Burt

 

When you get good or even great seats you see things you cant see on film. I remember not thinking much of spadafora(he wasnt near the level of fighters you watched). But when i watched him fight an I had close to ringside seats I could see so much things I never saw on film. You notice the more subtle things. You notice the feints better an the overall movement

 

mate if your gonna chip into the conversation atleast read it properly first :good

 

It is probably too late for any constructive imput from me then !

 

yeah that particular debate just fizzled out as we were both agreeing on most points and it ended up being a matter of how much a norfolk win would benefit Jack :good

 

I've always been convinced that Gene Tunney should get a lot more kudos for beating Harry Greb.

Tunney beat Dempsey, Greb and Gibbons (by KO, and Gibbons had KO'd Norfolk just 6 months prior.).
Allegedly, Wills refused to fight Tunney.

Yet people say Tunney had a weak legacy at heavyweight.