John Lester Johnson - Jack Dempsey put to rest

Dempsey didn't give a fig for his "legacy". He pretty much saved boxing single-handed, like Babe Ruth did for baseball. He was the most famous guy in the world, back in the days before TV and internet makes dweebs like Floyd Maywether and Justen Beiber famous. Sure, he could've fought Wills or Renault or any number of guys, but they needed him a helluva lot more than he needed them. Dempsey was the million-dollar man. He fought the guys Rickard put in front of him and he beat them all and made a fortune doing it. What percentage was in it for Dempsey to fight Wills? Harry may have been the top contender, but he didn't really impress his critics. Most thought he was slow and lacked agression, and this opinion was solidified when he went the distance with an out-of-shape Luis Firpo. Dempsey would've destroyed Wills inside 6 rounds unless Harry ran and clinched, then it would've taken 8 or 10.

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Disagree big. Babe Ruth did not save baseball. Baseball wasn't unpopular; baseball was corrupt. Babe Ruth changed the game, but it was Kennesaw Mountain.Landis who saved it from corruption. Ironic knowing him as we do...

 

R, look for the Dempsey "haters" to go after you for your insightful
remarks...It galls me to think that these posters [a few] wish to change
boxing history written by the talent of Jack Dempsey,and the great writers, boxers and trainers of THAT TIME, as they somehow KNOW more about Dempsey and his era, 90 years later...They have an agenda to fulfill, not relating to the reality of boxing history...Do these noble posters think with the same conditions that Dempsey and his contemporaries faced, they would have been much different in that less enlightened times ? Hell no...
Dempsey after a tough, hungry life as a hobo who had to fight for every meal was lucky to hook up with Jack Kearns, became a great fighter [, yes a great fighter], became champion , fought and whipped everyone he fought, DID sign for a bout with Harry wills,which fell through, and in 1923
rich and famous succumbed to the charms of the silent screen stars who fell at his feet,and bedded them all...An American success. Who the hell could blame him.? He wasn't thinking of what a few disgruntled and "noble"
ESB posters would think about his "legacy" 90 years or so later...
Did Dempsey fight the best crop of heavyweight contenders ? NO...But he beat everyone he fought til Hollywood beckoned, and H2H he would be hell for anyone after him...So good job R.....

 

In a nutshell, yes. :good

But in this strange corner of the internet, abstract ideas of "all time rating" and "legacy" become real ... and an entire universe of alternative "boxing history" rules supreme.

 

Do you agree that when Dempsey was due to fight Wills, it was a nothing fight, and Dempsey would have won easily due to Wills aging.

ie The wills fight needed to be at the start of the hiatus or it adds nothing to his legacy.

 

name value always adds something. the sooner into Dempsey's reign, the better the victory would be.

 

Luf, everything has to conform to your desire's, as to how it SHOULD have been, not to reality ...Myriads of events had transpired in boxing in the USA that made the actions of Dempsey, Wills and the boxing community in America
that SHAPED events ,and not your wishful thinking...How the heck can you put yourself 90 years after the fact in Dempsey's or Tex Rickard's shoes...?
YOU CAN'T...Today an Albert Einstein in physics would know much less on the subject than most top physicists, as he too was a product of his times...Cheers...

 

:rofl that is gold

 

My Dad and uncles too burt. These kids will never understand. The devaluation of a current great like Ali has already begun. You can't expect them to value a Dempsey, louis, etc.. Their heavyweight era of now is pathetic at best. a bunch of musclebound beach boys trying to fight. Dempsey to me, kills those guys. Dempsey, Louis, etc all proved heart and will in tough battles. Tyson NEVER did, always folded, but the musclebound and easily dissuaded tyson is their hero. That alone explains it all to me and exemplifies who you are arguing with

 

Dempsey had and still has the greatest legacy in the sport. These fools know nothing Burt.

 

I have read endless books and newpapers and articles on Dempsey and greb and NEVER was the idea seriously put forth for them to fight for the Heavyweight Championship of the World. It never came up. Greb sparred with him and did well. Big deal. Sparring is nothing. I saw fighter after fighter kick Danny Lopez' ass in sparring, but fighttime, he crushed them all. This is all a load of revisionist history crap. Nobody even once back then suggested the two fight for the title. That is a fact.

 

It's what drives away a lot of good posters who were sharing FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCES at fights and gyms instead of the current fantasy matchup and revisionist claptrap you read on the forum now. Should be a forum just for telling firsthand stories that happend to each other in boxing

 

Interesting....We have had this argument at opposite ends recently, havent we.

So when we say Dempsey "ducked" Wills, we probably should add the proviso that Dempsey Knocked out Wills' conquerer shouldnt we?

So, off your list, of Norfolk, Greb, and Wills, Dempsey beat Wills Conquerer(Sharkey), Greb's conquerer (Tommy Gibbons), who ( by a quick boxrec skim) twice handled Harry Greb easily, had one ND fight where it was even until he started to struggle with the rain and lightning, and once lost on points when Greb landed a million punches but never hurt him. That just leaves Norfolk. Norfolk, of course at thist time was stopped by Lee anderson, KOd in 2 rnds by Harry Wills, Lost on points to Harry Greb, Lost on points to Jim McCreary. And, he had his last decent win streak halted by Dempsey victim Tommy Gibbons.

So, off these three glaring ommissions, Dempsey beat the conquerer of all three!

 

I don't see the point of your reply, do you disagree with me?

I said the sooner into Jack's reign, the better a Wills victory would be. do you agree with that?

 

I didn't say he ducked him.

I said it would be better for his boxing legacy had he defeated Wills, Greb and Norfolk rather than go to hollywood.

Do you agree with that?