John Ruiz - A Top 25-30 Heavyweight?

If the question is about top 30 heavyweights of all time, then, no, John Ruiz should not be on the list...in my opinion.

If the question is about top 30 heavyweights of today, then, yes, John Ruiz should be pretty high on that list...in my opinion.

 

I rank Ruiz at #24 all time, right above Joe Louis at #25.

 

losing credibility, one post at a time

 

I think Wlad's wins are easily ahead.

Ruiz's best wins:

Holyfield: old, went 1-1-1
Johnson: undefeated, perhaps his best win
Rahman: or this is his best win
Oquendo
Golota (close)
McCline (old)

Ruiz's secondary wins: Tony Tucker (old) and Jimmy Thunder.

Some would argue he beat Valuev and certainly their first fight was very close. The second time around, i thought it was a clear win for the giant Russian because of his swift jab.



Wlad's best wins:

Byrd 2x: once at his peak, once when past his best, but still the best beltholder in the division
Peter: undefeated and at the peak of his powers
Brock: dito
McCline: when he was still at his best
Brewster (aging, avenged a stoppage loss)
Ibragimov: undefeated
Schulz
Chagaev: undefeated, beat Ruiz
Austin
Rahman (old)
Thompson
Botha

In addition to that, Wlad's list of secondary wins like old Mercer, Barret, Jefferson, Wolfgramm, Shufford, Nicholson (who beat Ruiz), Castillo and Williamson is pretty good as well, and he won every single one of them by knockout.

Again, i give Ruiz credit for achieving a lot with relatively little talent, and never backing down from a challenge as well as being the first Latino HW beltholder which is rarely mentioned. But, to me it's not even close; Wlad is miles ahead in every way you look at it. If you want to argue losses, then Wlad certainly has bad ones to Purrity, Brewster (avenged) and a blowout to Sanders. On the flipside, Ruiz lost in 19 seconds to Tua as well as to a former middleweight in Jones and perhaps in Toney, though that was later ruled an NC. Before that he also had two losses to undistinguised boxers.


As for Vitali, it's closer, looking at his best wins:

Peter
Sanders
Gomez
Johnson (in 2 rounds and not on a DQ like Ruiz, though he was in better shape for Johnny boy)
Williams
Hide
Donald

All by stoppage, and with secondary wins over: Bean, Hoffman, Purrity and Norris.

While this one is closer, i think they key here is that Vitali didn't just beat these opponents; he destroyed them. All of them were on the end of the worst beating of their career, while many of Ruiz's victims were out-waltzed and/or lost very close fights like Holyfield and Golota. Vitali's defeats were also less bad than Ruiz', both against top opponents in Byrd and Lewis, and in both cases giving a good account of himself before retiring with injuries.

 

Im not a fan but he gave it a very good shot against the Giant and fought with some fire in his belly, a Ruiz win would not have been out landish imo.
Ruiz does not belong anywhere lower than middle fifties in a Heavyweight appraisal imo.

 

I could live with Ruiz in the top 60-75 slots.

 

For his ability, he was able to be a champ and be at the top of the rankings, so you must give him credit.
If i could achieve a quarter of what he achieved id be happy.

 

Alot of these other fighters were pretty past their best as well. With exception to Peter who lost his next fight to a journeyman after losing to Vitali, and Brewster who KO'd Wlad, neither of the Klitschko's faced true punching threats. When you think about the two biggest punching threats Wlad faced in Peter and Brewster, and how those fights played out, its pretty **** poor. The Klitshckos have been masterfully matched throughout their careers, and I kind of see it like these guys are big men with big offensive weapons, so of course they're going to have a huge advantage over an opponent who cant offer as much resistance in return and/or are forced to try and get close to an opponent thats 5 or 6" inches taller.
I would have liked to have seen either Klitschko face the Evander Holyfield that Ruiz faced, or even Rahman or Briggs, or Tua in the late 90's. That might have added a little more to their records in my opinion. Guys that are going to bring a little more heat and resistance to the fight. Not neccesarily better boxers, but offer more of a threat.

 

it was a joke you idiot

 

Chambers are journeyman?? :-( He's a top contender and confirmed that by winning a landslide decision, IN GERMANY, over Dimitrenko recently.

They faced the best they could face, and that's all you can ask.

How many hard hitters did Ruiz face? Tua and Rahman. He beat Rahman (as did Wlad, and older version but he also won every second of the fight) and lost to Tua in 19 seconds.

You're making a shitload of excuses, but fact is that Wlad's resume blows Ruiz's away, EASILY, both in quality and quantity. Guys like Briggs would be on the end of a boring shutout win and being jabbed to death until a Brewster-rematch-like corner stoppage because he isn't landing anything. If he beat Holyfield then he wouldn't have gotten credit for beating up an older fighter.

Your other criticism is non sense as well. You say he was matched up masterfully throughout his career.

In 2004, after losing to Brewster, Wlad could've taken the easy route to the title by beating up journeymen, but instead he took on the undefeated Peter, who was then seen as the next big thing and certainly the next big puncher, with no one giving him a chance to make it out of the 3rd. Yet he beat him and thereby won his title shot at Chrid Byrd. Then faced undefeated Calvin Brock. Then mandatory in Austin, didn't once use the right hand and knocked him out with a quantriple left hook. Then avenged his loss to Brewster, never stopped before. Then mandatory Thompson, never stopped before. Then scheduled to fight Povetkin, but he pulled out because of injury so he beat Rahman instead. Then faced the years long #3 Chagaev without losing a round as a last-week substitute.

Sorry but that's not exactly masterful matchmaking from a safety point of view.

 

Golota is a pretty big hitter as is Evander with his accurate punching ability not to mention the experience factor of those fighters is a much better factor than a fighter like Calvin Brock or Tony Thompson or Ray Austin. Your assuming he would blow out Briggs or Evander, but they would certainly have been live dogs in the early part of the fight. By the time Wlad faced some of the better names they were long gone in my opinion. Byrd was done, so was Rahman for that matter. This all comes down to excellent matchmaking. Im sorry but I dont classify those other fighters as highly as you do. Im not making excuses for anyone, this is my feeling towards these fighters. Fighting in the top ten in the 90's and early part of 2000 is a little more credible than fighting in the top ten for the last 3 or 4 years. I do agree the Klitschkos are beating the guys put in front of them, but in my book quantity will never overtake quality. Just about everytime Wlad took a step up in the area Im talking about, he was knocked out.

 

Golota was a good but not great hitter. "Well above average" pretty much describes him; he wasn't a puncher on the Tua/Sanders kind of level.

Evander Holyfield was not a "pretty big hitter".

 

Sanders was a bigger hitter than Golota? Nah. Sanders knocked out Wlad anyway. Again, Vitali fought a pretty horrible version of Sanders, not to mention Wlad drug him out of retirement to fight him in the first place.
Dropping Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson, and Riddick Bowe would classify Evander as a very accurate puncher. He was very capable of nailing guys right on the button. He also had the chin to get close enought to Wlad in Vitali during this time (9 years ago) to land his shots.

 

Golota always had to rely on wearing his opponents down. When was the last time you saw him score a vicious knockout, or even a clean one?

Dito for Holyfield, who hadn't stopped a notable heavyweight since Tyson in 1996. In fact, outside of Tyson, Holyfield barely stopped any good heavyweights. He's a good hitter for sure, but i don't think he qualifies as big puncher. Especially not in 2001.


You also seem to forget that Wlad beat a peak Byrd in 2000, winning every round and knocking him down twice.


Again, i don't know if you're being serious or not. Chambers a journeyman? Rahman excellent match making? He was a last minute substitute for Povetkin, who is a top4 fighter and young, but i guess Wlad avoids those kind of boxers?

Ray Austin went even with Ibragimov, who won 11 out of 12 rounds against Holyfield, whom you consider better? If Wlad is the result of excellent match making, then why did he sign to fight the big puncher David Haye? And when the pulled out, why did he take on the long established #3 in the division, Chagaev, on one week notice? Chagaev, by the way, beat Ruiz.