John Ruiz vs. Floyd Patterson

Floyds average weight was a buck ninety which makes him a small cruiserweight.

 

Seems like some people are agreeing with me.

 

I don't care about those trainers' opinions. There are nearly 30 fights on film for me to make my own conclusions.

Johansson is one of the worst heavyweight champions in history. He would never have been a champ if Floyd had great defensive skills. He didn't, they were good, but far from great. Machen got caught, can happen to anybody.

 

Accepted Jon

 

I never know what to make of Ruiz. Of the nearly 70-odd guys who've held a major belt, I don't think I'd favor Ruiz to beat *any* of them. (Well, maybe Valuev: he beat him twice, but that wasn't how King had planned it, so the decisions went against him). Yet, on a great night, I could see him beating about two-thirds of them.

Does that include Patterson? Maybe, but it'd have to be the best night of Johnny's life and the worst of Floyd's.

 

I care about the trainers opinions because they are the ones who were more often in the corners and at ringside. They are the ones who see a lot of the fights and fighters first hand and to give a fairly accurate assessment of the fighters mechanics in the ring. Unless you were there and fought Patterson and Ruiz, your opinion means SDFA.

When Ray Arcel speaks, people listen. When Freddie Brown, Whitey Bimstein, Dundee or Futch speak, people listen. All of these guys at one time have said Patterson was very skilled and had quick hands.

 

It's all just an opinion, Arcel, Futch, whoever, everyone has one. It's all relative. Compared to your typical heavyweight, he may have looked skillful. Compared to skillful non-heavyweights, Patterson has mediocre skills. And his combinations weren't that quick.

 

I'd say fairly well respected opinions from celebrated trainers who knew more about technique and boxing mechanics than any of us. Fighters included.

How about we conclude that you feel Patterson is overrated, doesn't throw fast combinations and perhaps wouldn't be heavyweight champion if Marciano had lived. OK.

I can't speak for others here on ESSB, but I think it's safe to say that more than just a few will rank Floyd in the top 3 fastest heavyweight hands in boxing history. He's also skilled as a fighter on the inside and out which you won't give him credit for.

 

Patterson wins a comfortable decision. Ruiz was beaten by 2 natural light heavyweights in Jones and Toney so Ruiz's superior size clearly means nothing. His jab and grab tactics may work against slower heavyweights where he is able to get his punches off first and then grab hold to prevent any counters but against quick handed fighters he gets hit before he can jab or grab and is easily out pointed.

Patterson may not be a ATG but he was a level above Ruiz. Faster, more athletic and superior skills. Ruiz only has size and durability on his side and that simply isn't enough.

 

If you asked them (famous trainers) to watch the film and point out the flaws in Patterson's skills, they'll come up with a lot of them, regardless of what they were talking about before. His defense had a lot of flaws, too mechanical, too predictable, leaving a lot of openings. His offense was far from polished, his punches too wide. Floyd and Mike fought in similar style, and on film it's clear that Mike was a lot more polished and versatile in both defense and offense, than Floyd.

Ask them (more than just a few) to compare handspeed in throwing combinations, and not single punches, and he'll be far out of top 3.

 

They'd come up with a lot of the same stuff they mentioned already about his skills.

Everyone has flaws Senya13, nobody is perfect. I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. You're just making it sound as if Floyd is practically nothing as a heavyweight champion.

The great Mike Tyson, who you compared to Floyd has his flaws too. Tyson maybe a more polished version of Patterson, but the style came from Floyd and I think he deserves more credit than how you're wiping the floor with him. Purposeful pessimism I sense from you.

 

Floyd gets dropped a couple of times,but wins sizeable decision.

 

I suppose what I wanted to say was that Patterson was much inferior to Jones in skills and handspeed, to make conclusion that he beats Ruiz the same way Roy had done.

 

I think you're way off on that one.

Jones relied way too heavily on his reflexes rather than developing his natural talent. As he got older and slower, he took some serious shots and got caught where he wouldn't have if he didn't leave that lazy left hand down by his waist. I believe Patterson was a better fundamental boxer than Jones who spent considerable minutes in his fights showboating and clowning.