John Ruiz vs. Floyd Patterson

All that aside Patterson was far far easier to hit thana Prime Jones, he was far easier to hit with a jab and far easier to catch clean with big punches.

I'd still pick Patterson to beat Ruiz mind you. Patterson vs Jones is a toss up, Jones has the superior speed, skill, defence and reflexes, Patterson has the better chin and maybe a bit stronger. Both probably have the power to KO the other

Nowhere near, Patterson wasn't quicker at HW either

 

Skills are not about fundamentals and textbook.

 

I loved Floyd but I have to be realistic and say Jones was special, plus Floyd was really a SMALL cruisrweight.(190 in his prime)

Jones tko 11.

 

Skill in boxing is how well you execute the fundamentals of the sport in the fight and how hard you practice in the gym perfecting your craft.

Throwing textbook punches requires months of training. Some fighters don't necessarily fight by the book and have their own unique qualities which separates them from others.

Roy Jones wasn't a textbook fighter all the time. Again, he relied on his reflexes which were uncanny, just like Ali. Too much IMO, which is why he got caught later on in his career when he shouldn't have. In fact the comparison to Ali makes sense because people who try to imitate both of these fighters, get knocked out.

Floyd had his flaws like every fighter. At the same time he's been recognized by the universal yet arguable greatest heavyweight of all time who said he had the most skills he's seen as a boxer and opponent. That's enough for me to give Floyd the respect he deserves.

 

Roy was marginally faster than Patterson, if that, at heavyweight. C'mon man, prime heavyweight Patterson vs heavyweight Jones? Not that much difference at all.

Roy was at his fastest against Paz, Toney, McCallum and Hopkins the first time around when he fought at MW and SMW.

He was much slower when he moved up in weight and with age you could say too. You can't tell me that Patterson was that much slower than the Jones who fought Tarver, Johnson, Ruiz, Trinidad or Calzaghe. There's no way he was when you factor in the weight increase.

 

Agree with you Jon Saxon.

Jones was a special fighter, but I'll disagree with you about him KOing Floyd at heavyweight or cruiserweight. I'd put my money on Patterson to catch Jones and stop him like Johnson or Tarver did in the later rounds.

Ruiz isn't beating Patterson but I can see it being a good fight with lots of loud complaining from the quiet man.

 

Whatever you think about significanse of fundamentals, skills are not about fundamentals per se. Jones was miles ahead of Patterson where skills were concerned.

 

You keep your opinion, I'll keep mine. Nuff said.

 

No he wasn't. Not even close to miles ahead of Patterson. He relied too much his speed and reflexes to win fights and get him out of trouble. He had a lazy left hand and sometimes he dropped his right down to midriff.

It all caught up with him as his career progressed. Don't tell me that Jones was miles faster as a heavyweight than Patterson. It's not accurate.

 

I repeat again, you don't understand the difference between skills and textbook technique.

 

No small heavyweight, or any heavyweight save Sonny or Ingo's bomb, ever had Floyd in any major trouble that he didn't come back from.
Senya do you want to argue RJJ as a better ATG? I'll give you that argument to debate but NO WAY Jones beats Floyd at Heavy.

 

In the words of the fictional great Hannibal Lector, enthrall me with your acumen Senya13.

What is skill in boxing vs textbook technique. You could start another thread?

I give you respect of having knowledge of this sport with a concerted opinion, AND not disrespecting with namecalling or insults.

 

I don't see why I need to explain this. A skill is a trained (not accidental/random/lucky) way/method of achieving a specific goal. Texbook gives you one or two methods how you can act in this or that situation, that doesn't mean there are no other ways how to achieve that. Jones had a much-much wider variety of defensive, offensive and tactical skills than Patterson.

 

Yeah, and Jones lack of textbook hand positioning, head/chin position, foot position, while again relying heavily on his faded reflexes cost him later on in his career where it shouldn't have. Think if Roy applied the discipline to protecting himself and working on his craft like Larry Holmes did later in his career. If he had even brought his jab hand up and eschewed throwing it from the hip to protect his face better and kept his chin down, I'll bet he doesn't get KOed by Tarver, Danny Green, Lebedev or even take the shots he did against Calzaghe.

The variety of tactics you express Jones has I can almost guarantee you that the best trainers of all time will tell you are devoid of proper boxing technique. I've even heard some of them say it throughout different interviews in reference to him.

The fighter who often showcases the best fundamentals with attention to the basics of this sport and applies it to his craft is often the most skilled fighter. There was nothing basic about Roy Jones Jr, that's for sure. He had great reflexes just like Ali, but his tactics weren't always the greatest.

 

I said it several times already, I don't care what those trainers, not matter how good they were, said. The man was more effective than 99% of boxers who were taught by textbook. This sport is not about getting your moves and pirouettes as close to the textbook as possible, it's about hitting and not getting hit. There were plenty of very fast boxers in history of boxing, but few if any achieved what Jones did, they were all getting hit a lot more often than Jones. He knew the textbook perfectly and trained as hard or harder than all those guys known for their textbook technique, to get what he had working and to use his knowledge of textbook to dissect the guys who were going by it. Ali had very small arsenal of skills as compared to Jones. You can see it on film, he's doing pretty much the same things over and over, round after round, fight after fight. With Jones you don't know what he's gonna do next. Because he had a lot to choose from.