John Tate

Tate was thrown in with some tough guys during his initial run. Ace Miller was either very confident in Tate's abilities or indeed an idiot.

Tate was 3-0 when he fought 6-0 Walter Santemore.
At 4-0 he fought 10-0 Eddie 'Animal' Lopez.
At 5-0 he fought 18-2-1(15) Lou Esa, who might not have been much but still had a decent record.
At 11-0 he was put in against 34 fight veteran Raul Gorosito, who'd been in with some tough guys and had never been kayoed before Tate got him.
At 12-0 he took out 20-0 Bernardo Mercado in two rounds and followed that with a second win over Santemore and a split decision over one-time 21-4-1 Johnny Boudreaux, a decent prospect a couple of years before.

Tate even had a decent run in going 10-0 (6) after the Berbick loss, from early '81 to summer '83, though per news reports he wasn't impressive. He certainly wasn't in the one bout I saw.

After the proposed Larry Holmes title shot fell throughin early 1984, Tate just seemed to sit around before finally fighting again in '86, 30 to 50 lbs over his fighting weight.

Here are some news reports on the Holmes - Tate bout. The first is when the fight was announced. The second is a short piece on the state of Tate's career after the Holmes fight was called off.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=sNwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5859,5237360&hl=en

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=sMcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4268,4244931&hl=en

 

I have seen many of Tate's fights and I find him to be quite interesting and technically sound. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, he was one of the few big men of the 1980s who had considerable skills and was very athletic. I think that he would have a great chance to beat people like Bonecrusher Smith, Bruno, Page, Broad, Tubbs, Cooney & maybe even Dokes. But I think he would get totally schooled by Larry Holmes and Tim Witherspoon. He might also lose a decision to Thomas. I find it disgraceful how he was put into the ring 3 months after losing to Weaver. A prime Tate versus a prime Berbick would be no match in my opinion. Tate would easily UD him. If Tate head beaten Weaver and had the opportunity to face Ali in October of 1980 it would have been a similar result. Does anybody know what happened to Tate in the last year or two of his career? Anyways, a sad end for a person who was so amiable.

 

He got into drugs like most heavyweights of the late 70s/ 80s period. It's kind of Tommy Morrison case here. Tate lost to Weaver, and then to Berbick. Weaver was one thing at the time, but Berbick was no one when they fought, he just turned into something. Tate was technically sound as you say and a good boxer, but had a soft chin, and didn't have the perseverance. Many fighters' greatest enemy is themselves. And that was Tate's.

 

Holmes would have knocked him silly in 10 at the most.

Dokes, Thomas, Witherspoon...I just don't see Tate beating any of them.

John had some nice skills and probably would have held the WBA title for a few years if not for his chin. He just couldn't hang in there with the guys who had even better than average shots.

 

Like the man said, hindsight it 50/50.

Let me tell you what kind of prospect Berbick was considered at this time:

He was 3-1-1 in his last five fights. Got knocked out in one by Bernardo Mercardo (which sounds like something now but Bernie himself was 1-2 in his previous three fights with two KO losses when he beat Trevor) and a draw against a .500-ish Leroy Caldwell. And one of his three wins, the fight immediately before Tate, was a hometown split decision over a guy with a 5-13 record.

That’s a helluva prospect they had there, a guy I’m sure all the promoters were climbing over each other to sign.

The story behind the Tate fight is that Don King tried to sign Tate and was rebuffed. So when he signed to fight Berbick, Don decided to see if he could make them pay and set up a camp for Trevor and brought in world-class sparring and help on the training end. When Berbick scored the upset, King signed him, haha, and found a diamond in the rough.

Who exactly is an ex-champion supposed to fight in his next fight after being like 1 minute from retaining his title? Tate had gone through Bobick and Knoetze and Coetzee ... should they have found a .500 guy? Nobody would want that on their card (especially the Duran-Leonard undercard). Look who other deposed champs fought next time out — how about Floyd Patterson, who fought Sonny Liston again after being iced in one and fought Ingo after being bounced off the canvas like a basketball — does Cus D’Amato deserve the same scrutiny as Ace Miller?

Let’s look at Ali (Jimmy Ellis after Frazier), Frazier (Joe Bugner after Foreman), Foreman (Ron Lyle after Ali). Every single one of those are way tougher fights than Trevor freaking Berbick, who had beaten no one of note and was an iffy prospect at that.

 

Any idea who he'd have faced next, if he'd beaten Weaver, Mr M?

 

Apparently Muhammad Ali is the bout they were seeking ... this would have been around the time of/in place of Ali vs. Holmes.

 

Yep. He said the chin is like a cash register. You fill it up too much and it pops open.

 

Nice article. Ace must have known he had damaged goods because he didnt put him on with anyone remotely threatening after the Berbick loss. The fight with Holmes would have been to cash out.

On another note, seeing the article about Bill Johnson winning Olympic gold in the downhill brought back fond memories.

 

Tate could fight and had excellent size .. his issue was his chin .. he was wrecked in the amateurs by Stevenson and then wrecked again by Weaver .. to this day not sure what happened against Berbick as it looked so weird .. that said his ability to take thew shots was never great and then completely vanished ..

 

I think possibly a rematch with Coetzee or maybe a returning Ali. There was also talk about a unification match with Holmes but given how unifications fell through during the 80s I have my doubts

 

You can fast-forward to about 1:25 here and see the Stevenson stoppage. Never seen a knockout quite like it, especially in the amateurs ... gets hit, takes a staggering walk and then plops down in a corner and you can see in his eyes he’s in la-la land.

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A fight with Ali at that point would probably have seen Ali maybe pulled out as he was against Larry imo. An Holmes fight, Tate would have done well for a few rounds then Larry steps it up and stops him. A return fight with Coetzee, it's 50-50 there I belive but leaning to a late stoppage for the south African.

 

Tate beats Ali up definitely.

 

I suppose all the above outcomes are possible