Johnson if he didn't cut water. Ali if he didn't spar full contact. Monzon if he didn't smoke.

I don't know how much of an effect Johnson's dehydration had, ultimately, since he might have become somewhat accustomed to fighting dehydrated. But I'm sure it was significant enough that he ought to have stopped. The Willard question is intriguing. Johnson did in fact lose that one due to stamina. I wonder...was he drinking water in his corner during the fight? For now, I'll file a different outcome under "plausible."

Ali with lighter sparring probably has a longer career. But...would he get as inured to punishment without those gym wars? This may be an occasion where you could make the case that he sacrificed long term health for a short term boost. He seemed to think that his punishment prepping for the Rumble was worth it, at least. He lasts longer with lighter sparring in the long run, tho.

 

Johnson: Obviously he would have been heavier, but I'm guessing his stamina would have improved. I think a different approach to that fight could have resulted in Johnson defeating Willard. For one thing, if representing Johnson at the time, I would have insisted on 15 or 20 rounds MAXIMUM, or NO fight.

Ali: I think it's very possible that his career could have been slightly extended, and I really doubt if it would have hurt his ability to withstand punishment. The man was Tough (with the capital T). It wouldn't have been extended long, though. I'm not sure how much we can blame gym/training wars for the Parkinson's.

Monzon: He was probably lucky with Genetics on the cigarettes. No cigarettes almost HAD to be better for him, anyway!

I imagine most, if not all, of the old time fighters would have benefited from better diets and habits. Perhaps, fighters in all eras would have, also. Everybody seems to have some bad habit or another...or several.

 

As to Monzon, are we absolutely sure he had the cigarette consumption claimed? Was he the one who said he smoked that much, or are there outside witnesses reporting it?

 

Fair enough. I'd trust the Johnson dehydration and Ali sparring stuff, personally. Ali sometimes had public workouts, and Johnson dehydrating himself was consistent with other fighters from the period.

 

Kids see this type of stuff anywhere.

 

On the Ali v Blin thread I linked video of Ali sparring in prep for the 1965 Liston rematch.

In the video, when it was least necessary at that stage of his career, Ali was literally doing a version (embryo stage) of the rope a dope even then. He was also holding mid ring and allowing his sparring partner to plant shots to the body. He says at one point that holding and laying on the other guy tires them out.

Fast forward to training post exile and Ali was allowing himself to be hit even more so. Bundini and Dundee were constantly defending Ali in response to bemused and concerned observers but I believe their “defence” basically amounted to their parroting the simple rationale Ali gave them - to toughen himself and practice fighting through such scenarios.

Bundini tried to be cute with D’Amato asking if he saw any damage/bruising to Ali’s face and Cus replied that he was equally concerned by the shots Ali was taking to the body.

Aside from Ali’s rationale, there was very much also a “playing around and masochistic” vibe attached to his taking shots in training which appeared equally as much as a bad habit increasingly taking over as anything else. More a madness to the method than a method to the madness.

Had Ali not practiced same, I totally agree he would’ve saved himself a ton punishment and without much, if any, compromise to his ability to take punishment which was in large part a natural part of his armoury.

 

The body blows might make a little more sense than headshots in sparring, since boxers (and some other combat sport people) do use them to condition the body.

Getting whacked in the head repeatedly might not win the Rumble in the Jungle for Ali, but perhaps whatever nerve-deadening or practice shots his sparring partners had dished out to his body might have.

 

As to Monzon. I believe he was a heavy smoker and it fit in with his personality and the life he lived outside the ring. Two pack a day guys or 40 cigs a day smokers were just rubber stamp descriptions for very heavy smokers give or take 5 cigs. Carlos was just a very social, social smoker.

As to kids, it’s we who need to be protected from any vision of what they get up to. LOL.

 

I think Johnson would’ve of course been better off not dehydrating but as it pertains to the Willard fight, a 45 rd’r, I think Jess’ master plan (read: soaking up lots of punishment before stepping it up against a tired Johnson) would’ve still likely played out over a longer number of rds but still that much less than 45 rds.

 

I never understood how an athlete like Monzon could smoke, much less a lot. Smoking is obviously an addictive habit and don't understand how he could shut it off for training, but then smoke socially. That's a hard habit to quit. I think his height and reach, and big punch, was a huge advantage to him and he knew how to use those attributes. He could relax somewhat and allow others to come to him. The stress was more on the opponent to get inside those long arms of his. In any case, he did what he had to do to make it work and it did for him.

 

Ali would have been less good without all that sparring.