This sums it up. A champion is defined by who he faces. For Johnson, it was a poor lot of title defenses. He has two draws ( O'brien, and Jim Battling ), was floored by a middle in a win ( Ketchel ), won via DQ in a foul fest ( Flynn ), and then was KO'd by Willard who isn't highly regarded today. No title fights were made vs Smith, Langford, Jeannette, or Mcvey. Each of the four at periods from 1909-1915 would have been Johnson's best title opponent. To use a modern day what if. Suppose Ali avoided Frazier, Foreman, and Norton, and had similar title defenses vs much smaller / older / journeyman, then was promptly Ko'd by Cooney after avoiding the best out there years?
In a finish contest, I too would pick Jeannette. Corbett is correct when he says Johnson goes on offense on the breakaways, if he means Johnson holds then hits, and hits on the break. A clear hit on the break foul can be viewed on film in the Moran fight, which is very close based on shown footage of multiple rounds. In addition, Johnson was DQ'd for going low, and was accused of going low in other fights. Yes--take away the muggings, which for Johnson did not work vs larger men in their prime, and he's not as effective for sure.
I'm saying Theodore Vienne had a vested interest in withdrawing title recognition from Johnson and promoting a fight between Langford and Jeannette as for the vacant title. I'm saying Vienne tried to have Johnson banned as an undesirable alien immediately after he had signed to fight Moran for a rival promoter. Two parties bid for the Johnson v Moran fight, one was Vienne, the fight to take place at his venue Lunar Parc The fight ended up at the Velodrome d' Hiver under a rivals promotional banner. Have a look where Jeannette had all his major fights in France, he was virtually Vienne's house fighter. Jack Johnson, heavyweight champion, was matched to-day to fight Frank Moran in this city during the second week of January, 1914, for the heavyweight championship of the world. Two clubs, the Nouveau Cirque and the Wonderland Francais, are now bidding for the match, and the decision will be made known Saturday.[3] The Nouveau Cirque, which holds its bouts at the Velodrome d'Hiver in Passy, will seat 30,000 persons, and it has offered Johnson 50 percent of the gross receipts, with 25 percent for Moran. The Wonderland Club, which is under the control of Theodore Vienne, the leading fight promoter of France, will submit its bid tomorrow I'm saying Vienne had no interest in talking up Johnson who refused to fight for him. therefore I view anything he says on the subject of Jack Johnson with suspicion. .Barney Curley said he would love to promote Johnson against one of the other three leading black heavyweights ,and that it would develop into a great fight but that the American public would not pay to see it,Jim Coffroth concurred, what motive could they possibly have lying? Below is a link stating Johnson retires because he cannot get his price for a title defence. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZH19120801.2.73 ps Sorry if I was touchy about the way you worded things. I accept you had no ulterior motive, my mistake.
Right. **** like that happens all the time. It's just another smokescreen in order to draw a fighter into a deal. This happened loads, it's not a reason for mis-trusting a promoter, unless you think you can't trust all of them. It's just a way of getting the champion into the ring. Look at all the claims and counter-claims that went on in boxing. It happened so much they started to name them, WBC, IBF etc. Evil, but it doesn't mean he couldn't have put the Johnson fan on or wasn't telling the truth. King was the most unpleasant promoter in history, possibly, but he put on some of the biggest fights. You are attacking his character; it doesn't really make sense to do so. Well if Johnson can't fight with Joe's promoter because he doesn't feel safe, and he can't fight any American promoter because there's no money, then surely it puts some pressure back on him to sort ****? How many objections is too many? How many times do you pardon the fight not happening because of promotion issues? Endless? That's fine, I look upon what the American promoters say with deep suspicion. What I do know is that i've fulfilled your request to find offers of $30 000 and immediately you don't like them because the promoter. Maybe Johnson didn't tell him he didn't want to fight anyone first class - that does sound ridiculous. But what is definitely true, is that what he said Johnson's representative said basically came true. I don't think pointing fingers at the promoter whether he is American or French or Australian, endlessly, is reasonable.
Johnson came to London to fight Wells ,the British Home Office vetoed the fight. By the time Johnson was fighting in Paris he was 35 and 36 years old well overweight and had been inactive for a year and a half. career.Neither Jeannette or McVey were eligible to be European Champion as both were US born . I'm sorry JJ there are loads of untruths in this piece.Langford's defeat by Jeannette was not by ko, it was a corner retirement. "'Jeannette has whipped Johnson 4 different times decisvely" oh yeah when was that then? The Marquis Of Queensbury rules have nothing to say about a champion being obliged to defend his title against whomever challenges him. The longest fight Johnson had with Jeannette was 15rds bout and Johnson was the emphatic winner. The idea that Langford was afraid to face Jeannette is patently ludicrous. Jeannette did not "whip McVey over 30rds " the result was DRAW Jeannette fought Colin Bell in London the British press stated he was lucky to get the decision. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/79191560?searchTerm=colin%20bell%20Jeanette&searchLimits= Booker T Washington calling Johnson a discredit to his race is funny, he was caught redhanded looking through a bed room keyhole and arraingned for it..The man was a sanctimonius hypocrite.. Jeannette criticising Johnson for sleeping with white women ? He married one didn't he? Pot kettle? The offer by McIntosh was withdrawn after Johnson had accepted it. In short this is a piece of nonsense whoever wrote it. Ps I've edited some of the original post because of space
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. In the McVey's case, not even salted hay, nor a boatload of facts will make a difference. He is militant on this topic. He will go off tangent, critique your writing style, or attack character of a past or present source. What you wrote is correct. Johnson had offers to fight Langford, McVey and Jeannette. He (Johnson) simply did not want to risk it. As for the fights between Johnson and Jeannette, it should be a given that Jeannete sometimes had a losing record, or was .500 when he meet Johnson. Joe was a raw novice, who sometimes gave a much more experienced Johnson a tough outing.