Johnson Ketchel knockdown set up fake

Gunboat Smiths eye witness testimony and the fact he was in Johnsons camp is the relevant info. Smith stated the KD was faked and that JJ could have ended the fight at any time. I forget the reasoning why Johnson faked the KD except he wanted a reason to KO Ketchel. For those who have the book with Smiths interview what exactly did he say?

 

The newspapers stated that the only person who thought the knockdown was legitimate was Jack Welch the referee. Everyone else thought Johnson faked it for the pictures which I agree with. Its silly to say "so and so who was there said... " when we have film that we can replay and watch over and over.

 

The fight is supposed to have been rehearsed ,and choreographed in Barney Curleys hotel suite, with Ketchel saying he couldn't pull his punches and Johnson stating ,"you just do what you can" or words to that effect.
Whatever the truth is, Johnson sparked him with his next punch ,and anyone who isnt a total Johnson hater. can see that he is carrying the smaller man picking him up on two occasions and setting him back on his feet.
Mendoza's response is as predictable as it is pathetic.

 

"This paper says":roll:

WHAT DOES THE FILM SAY?atsch

 

For what it's worth, the film ain't none to good.

Another Gunboat assertion always got my attention, tho none around here would remark about it when I brought it up. Old Gunboat contended that Jeffries considered his match with Johnson to be a fix in his favor from the outset, even after it was moved from SF to Reno. It was only two days before the match that Johnson informed Jim that outside of California, where they wouldn't have a Negro winning the title, the fight would be on the up and up... Jeffries summarily turned a white shade of pale.

Was Gunboat just full of **** or were these tales true?

 

Johnson was known as the greatest defensive fighter in the hwt division. In all my years studying Johnson I've never seen him react to any punch like he does to that very long right hand from Ketchel. He does indeed start to fall before the punch is any where near him. In my eyes the punch if it hit him at all brushed the back of his head. It does also seem weird that the punch was thrown in full view of the camera.....Ketchel directly to the left and Johnson directly to the right. I always thought the KD was faked watching this bout back in the 70s on 8 mm film to this very day watching on YouTube. Smiths comments adds further proof in my eyes because what he says is what I see when I watch the film and he was there at ringside. Why it happened and all the circumstances surrounding it will probably always be a mystery.

 

Werent him and ketchel friends? and they tried to make it go the distance because their was more money in it that way and Ketchel being Ketchel,tried to sneak a KO in?

 

Old story, It is not fake, but Jack johnson started that **** when it happened. Ketchel nailed him, plain and simple. According to Johnson, EVERY time he got knocked out, or knocked down, it was part of some scheme.

Johnson said he was carrying Ketchel, but then why was Ketchel hurt earlier, cut, and have bruises, as did Johnson, who had some swelling on face?

 

The film is not great, but Johnson fell from a punch, rolled over, had to brace himself to get up, lost his balance once he was up, then grabbed the ropes after Ketchel was down.


No paper says it was a phantom punch. McVey doesn't like newspapers that ruin his agenda. Nothing new here.

 

The knockdown looks fake to me.
I've been saying this for years.

 

I've watched that KD a thousand times....no way it's legit.

 

The film of Johnson-Ketchel fits with what Smith said about it.

As for Johnson-Jeffries, I'm no expert on that fight. It's entirely possible, but I haven't researched it. On such matters (fixed fights, 'double crosses', backroom agreements etc.) we can probably never be certain of what is true or not.

 

You don't lose 100 pounds and get into the condition Jeffries got into if the fight was to be faked.

 

My assertion throughout boxing history is if a fight is to be faked, I want proof of it.

The kd Ketchel scored doesn't look the worst but I''ve seen kd punches with less power land less cleanly then that (a valero one comes to mind, looks like he barely clippe dthe guy and he nigh sparked him out).

Like someone said, the phantom punch was rumoured to be fake for years but once that HD version was put up you can see quite clearly it lands solidly as Liston leans in.

I imagine the same would be here and that's why Johnson was so quick to knock him out, embarassment or anger I dunno but he was taking it easy and the mw saw his chance.

I'm not overly keen on these debates because it usually comes down to opinion v opinion, so like I say, if ya can prove it's fake then go for it, otherwise we have to maintain it's legit.