Johnson Says There Was No" Arrangement "For Ketchel Fight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 5, 2012.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Any moment of less than super-heroic performance by Lil' Arthur must be explained away not as an aberration but by exterior reasoning which can only be offered Johnson or his legion of apologists.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    And any agreement among posters that Johnson was not legitimately knocked down must automatically be greeted by infantile accusations of being boozed from you .

    IS THAT RIGHT?
    END OF DEBATE. GO GET YOUR NAPPY CHANGED.
     
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    So, the apologists' blinders go as far as to deny what is empirically obvious to any viewer of the film, that Johnson did not block the knockdown punch with his glove, which means he was again a maker of fibs. But that is no surprise to anyone who read his story of throwing the fight against Willard, in all it's conjured details. What is also not a surprise is that his flock attends to every failing of his boxing ability and inaccuracy of his recollection with the most acute contortions of logic and interpretation witnessed this side of the Vatican.

    Bravo. The script has been played well.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    When I put this thread up, I accompanied it with the qualifying remark.




    What credence you place in this is up to you, but I thought it was interesting to read so here is the link.


    In my next post, I said.

    I agree he did not block it .


    At NO TIME have I suggested that Johnson blocked the blow with his glove


    What I have said is ,that after viewing the film so many times that I have lost count I still believe that Johnson begins to fall BEFORE the punch lands. IF INDEED IT DOES LAND.
    That is NOT and CANNOT BE construed to be, in any way an apology for Johnson himself,or any pugilistic performances he may have given.

    ARE WE CLEAR?

    I think it is common knowledge that Johnson liked to embroider his life, usually casting himself in a flattering light.
    BUT, to my knowledge, this propensity did not have the capacity to alter, rearrange, change, distort,vary, replace, cinematographic film.
    IN OTHER WORDS, whatever Johnson said is irrelevant, and unimportant.
    The crux of the matter is ,does the film of the fight show Ketchel landing the blow BEFORE Johnson begins to fall or AFTER ?

    Several posters believe it clearly demonstrates that Johnson begins to fall BEFORE the blow lands ,and,others have said so on this forum including posters such as Klompton who was no Johnson fan, but an avid viewer of old time fight films.
    NOW TO YOU. If you want to troll ,why not go to the lounge instead of wasting the rest of us time?

    I put sections of this in caps, as I would if I was addressing Mendozy, because thats what your post is worth.

    That kind of response.

    PS Why do you keep using the word empirically out of context?


    Do you like the sound/sight of it?

    The layman's version = anyone who doesn't agree with you is a ****.


    "Spiegeln Spiegeln Und Der Wal."
     
  5. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I really don't see how anybody could view that punch as landing solidily enough to cause the knockdown it did. Johnson appears to already be falling before it lands.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That's another vote for the sceptics.:good

    Of those who have given an opinion on the authenticity of the knockdown, four think it is fake, one thinks it is genuine.
     
  7. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All we do know is Ketchel threw a punch, Johnson went down. He got up and immediately knocked out Ketchel. The rest is theory and conjecture and speculation. But there is some evidence from the film, as well as what others said and suspected, and what Johnson later said, that gives the indication that there was something a bit off about that fight. Johnson was either carrying Ketchel, or toying with him, or torturing him, or methodically and carefully breaking him, depending on how you want to interpret it. It was never easy to entirely peg what Johnson was doing. Whatever he did, he did because he wanted to, and it worked for him. Johnson could have been off balance when he was ducking and the punch landed and knocked him down, but it was more of an off balance knockdown He may have actually been caught hard by a punch he did not expect. After all, Ketchel was known as a true puncher. Or he intentionally went down to make the films more valuable, or to lure Ketchel into a trap. Either way, he obviously knew he wasn't hurt that bad, or not hurt at all, and was able to capitalize on a moment that he expected Ketchel to be careless, and therefore, he took that moment to nail Ketchel as he advanced. And those were some brutal fast blows, too.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    According to Mendoza ,Johnson was badly dazed :patsch
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Who cares what Johnson said. He tells a pack of lies so often, its hard to take what he says at face value.


    I agree with you. The knockdown looks genuine. I also would add that Johnson had to roll over and brace himself to get up. When he attacked, he fell over, perhaps because he did not have his balance back from the knockdown.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    LOL, the film show no blocking by Johnson's glove. Do you actually watch any of the films? Apparently not as you think Kessler out jabbed Clazaghe.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Who cares what Johnson said indeed . Let's just go on the film evidence and, all but two posters who have offered an opinion on it ,think it was fake.

    YOU are the only idiot who thinks Johnson was groggy.

    Is it coincidence that the two who say it was genuine are the biggest Johnson haters on this Forum?
    I don't think so.:lol:
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The film shows no blocking of the blow.

    We have already established that .

    RAINMAN
    Do you actually read the posts?:patsch
     
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Because four keyboard jockeys on a message board think something is so, it is written in stone? Seriously? How many knockdowns have we witnessed that seem irregular but are never questioned? The classic knockdown punch to the point of the jaw is probably the rarest occurrence in the sport. Many times it is the glancing blow, or in this case a blow that appears hit the back of the head, that does the damage. And upon replay the neophyte always comments, "That didn't look so bad."

    Notice how Johnson fights, stepping back continually as Ketchel moves to the attack, moving his back foot first, then his lead. Between these steps, Johnson is in a very wide stance, a bit off-balance, which is exactly where Ketchel catches him. Entirely plausible in any contest except one which includes Johnson.

    Why is that Johnson's opponents carry a double-onus to prove their success against him, no matter how limited or fleeting? All results to the positive must be twice proven, first in the ring and then, impossibly so, before the court of his inquisitors. Such desperate rejoinders are why I love posting about Johnson. His champions are the most hysterical lot to be found and provide endless hilarity.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Well its nice to know your opinion of your fellow posters.
    Key board jockey's? Neophyte's? So, because we disagree with you we are all novices?

    None of us have been insulting to you because you disagree with us .But I have no problem insulting you now ,because you are a rude, insolent know all,who entertains no-ones opinion but his own.
    As I said before, you are in good company with Mendozy.

    A man is judged by the company he keeps.

    It's good to know I don't have to give you the benefit of the doubt any more.
    NUMBER ONE TROLL. NOW, GO AND DO ONE.