JOHNSON VS JENNETTE THE NOVICE

JOHNSON VS JEANNETTE THE NOVICE
1905-1906

He had been boxing professionally only since late 1904, but the 25-year old had talent.

Joe Jeannette had shown what he would demonstrate for the majority of his career. Although he went down a few times in the 3-round bout, he covered up fairly well, recuperated, showed gameness, and fought back hard. He was fast and landed some good blows. Jeannette would wind up becoming one of the era's toughest and best heavyweights.

This writer was overly critical. Jeannette was very tough, talented, and underrated at that point. He consistently would prove to be one of the best, most durable, and talented fighters in the business. Within the same month, he would stop Sam Langford. Plus, it wasn't easy to stop a motivated, in-shape man who had survival skills. Johnson still had managed to deck him three or four times in each of two bouts, with the third ending early as the result of an accidental low blow, which some questioned. Jack Johnson fought thirteen times in 1905.

Frozen out of the heavyweight championship title picture, instead, Jack Johnson arranged a scheduled 15-round bout to be held in mid-March 1906 in Baltimore against Joe Jeannette, who was "conceded to be the best of the colored boxers in the light-heavyweight division. Jeannette had been having the same trouble in obtaining matches. “The old cry of the color line has been the howl raised every time.” Jeannette instilled enough fear into white heavyweights such that they had to use the color line to avoid meeting him. Hence, he and Johnson were fighting each other again.

The local paper called it one of the best if not the best cards in local history. Johnson and Jeannette boxed 10 fast rounds in a "corking good main event." The crowd left perfectly satisfied that they received their money's worth. They were also satisfied that they had "seen one of the best heavyweights in the business and another boxer possibly not in Johnson's class, but who is fast coming to the front.

 

mcvey, pIts difficult to know who is speaking here and when , you or an anonymous writer ,can you put both inverted commas on the quotes and the provenance of them.

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ps I am not disputing some of the broad facts,although the 15 rounder was described as a boring affair with neither really opening up .

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How was Jeannette frozen out of the title picture in1905/06? As you have repeatedly stated he was a novice?

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NB This below is important.

1906-03-14 Joe Jeannette 185lbs Jack Johnson 205 lbs Colored heavyweight title

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This was Jeannette's 18th fight in public.

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Note the date, 14th March 1906 and the weight of Jeannette 185lbs!
This was Jeannette and Johnson's second to last fight .

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Jeannette claimed that he weighed 162lbs for their last encounter which was 8 months later!.
They did not weigh in for this their last fight, but Johnson was described as being 20lbs heavier.

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I posted the accounts of this fight and you refused to accept them and their estimated weights. The report is taken for Adam's book,which was also my source.

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Their last fight below.
" 1906 Nov26th .Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title. Johnson 20lbs heavier. The local paper called it a draw, though it also said Johnson was the cleverer boxer and ring general and slightly outclassed Jeannette. Research done by Adam Pollack".
Now for you to be right and me to be wrong .


1.Jeannette at the age of 26 would have had to lose 23lbs in 8 months and Johnson ,who was now 28 would also have had to lose the same amount!

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I know you will never admit that Jeannette weighed 185 bs for his 1906 14th March fight with Johnson even though they weighed in for it and it is recorded in black and white !

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NB Less than 5 months after his last fight with Johnson,Jeannette scaled 185lbs for a fight with Sam McVey!
1907 15th April Jeannette 185lbs ! McVey 208lbs.

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1908 3rd March Jeannette 200lbs ! Langford 175lbs

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That is 16 months after his last fight with Johnson a weight gain,[ according to Jeannette and yourself ,]of 38lbs! Was he on NANDROLONE?lol

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For you to do so you would have to admit that you have been totally wrong all through your ranting and raving
not only in your, so- called "facts", but in ascribing ulterior motives to me that I have never had.

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And that will never happen, because you do not have the largesse of spirit in you to admit you were dead wrong!

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Thanks very much for making this thread, it is long overdue from you and would have saved two other threads being ruined by your xenophobic paranoia.

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I look forward to contributing to this one with any verified facts I think may be of interest.

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The Boston Globe Nov 25, 1905


Joe Jeannette of New York went down in the second round of the wind-up with Jack Johnson, the Negro heavyweight champion, at the National A.C. tonight, from a foul blow, and 10 minutes later he was carried from the ring suffering intense pain. The blow was delivered about the middle of the second round and when both men were fighting fast. Johnson rushed Jeannette into a corner and one of his many swings went foul, the blow landed several inches below the belt. Jeannette’s seconds worked over him five minutes, and then carried him to his dressing room. Jeannette to the surprise of everyone, had all the better of the first round. He was fully six inches shorter than his opponent, and 25 pounds lighter.
Commencing the second round, Johnson sent a hard right to Jeannette’s body and swung another right for the jaw, but Jeannette was out of harm’s way and came back with that bad left to Johnson’s jaw. This appeared to anger the big champion, and he went after Jeannette. Many of the blows, which had steam enough behind them to drive Jeannette through the ropes, missed, and as Jeannette straightened up after each ducking he nearly always managed to tap Johnson’s jaw. Johnson fought Joe around the ring, and finally getting him in a corner, rained rights and lefts on his body, one of which blows went low and Jeannette fell to the mat. Johnson, not knowing he had hurt Jeannette, struck him at least twice while the latter was falling.
The Hudson Dispatch reported the following: In the middle of the second round of a fast, interesting contest, at the National Athletic Club last night, Jack Johnson, the colored heavyweight champion laid low Joe Jeannette with a terrific left hand uppercut which landed very low on the Gotham boy. As Jeannette sank to the canvas with a startling groan, the crowd threatened to the title holder bodily harm, and it was due to the fact that a squad of armed policemen entered the ring, in time to prevent some lovers of the Queensbury rules from starting into the ring.
Jeannette was carried unconscious from the ring to his dressing room, where Doctors Ferris and O’Connor, failing to revive him, sent him to the Pennsylvania Hospital. Johnson was placed under arrest and locked up in a nearby station house where he was held until Jeannette entirely recovered from the blow. Jeannette was taken to the station house, but he refused to make any charges against the champion.
Johnson and Jeannette were the principals in the star boxing show at the National Club’s weekly boxing show. The former had every natural advantage, towering over the Jersey man, outclassing him in reach and outweighing him many pounds. There was considerable money bet that Jeannette would not last four rounds, Johnson himself having put up $200.
When the bell summoned the men into action, Johnson appeared the cleverer of the two, having it all over Jeannette. The latter soon got down to business and a long left jab was continually reaching the champion’s jaw. A hard right to the body shook Jack up considerably.
Jeannette kept these tactics in the second round, and Johnson maddened at the thought, threw all reason and rules to the wind, and started to go in and “rough house” it.
Near the end of the second round, he rushed in, swinging both arms wildly, Jeannette backed into the ropes, and as he did so, Johnson released a terrific left uppercut from his knees, hitting the local fighter very low. Jeannette then slowly sank to the floor.

Jeannette was carried unconscious from the ring to his dressing room, where Doctors Ferris and O’Connor, failing to revive him, sent him to the Pennsylvania Hospital. Johnson was placed under arrest and locked up in a nearby station house where he was held until Jeannette entirely recovered from the blow. Jeannette was taken to the station house, but he refused to make any charges against the champion.

 

mcvey,The first article which you claimed was unnecessarily harsh on Jeannette because it didn't portray him in the glowing light that you would have wished ,was originally posted by me on this forum last year ,and again this year!

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The facts I posted earlier came from Pollack's first volume on Jack Johnson !
Great so you were attacking his quotes, too funny.

You continue in your denial. As I said you haven't the nuts to admit when you are proven wrong.

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mcvey, Did the Boston Globe have a writer present at the fight,or did they make a report based on a wire service account?

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I've produced here for about the 10th time the local writers eye witness account.

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I can and have produced articles that completely refute this one, articles that say Johnson was well on top

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.Jeannette was not unconscious either in the ring or afterwards this is pure fabrication.
Here is the local papers version.

JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul

After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson,

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The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul.


Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow.

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He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
Philadelphia Public Ledger

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That is the opinion of the local newspaper.

Ok, but here is another article that you might have missed.
The Boston Globe: Joe Jeannette of New York went down in the second round of the wind-up with Jack Johnson, the Negro heavyweight champion, at the National A.C. tonight, from a foul blow, and 10 minutes later he was carried from the ring suffering intense pain. The blow was delivered about the middle of the second round and when both men were fighting fast. Johnson rushed Jeannette into a corner and one of his many swings went foul, the blow landed several inches below the belt. Jeannette’s seconds worked over him five minutes, and then carried him to his dressing room. Jeannette to the surprise of everyone, had all the better of the first round. He was fully six inches shorter than his opponent, and 25 pounds lighter.
Commencing the second round, Johnson sent a hard right to Jeannette’s body and swung another right for the jaw, but Jeannette was out of harm’s way and came back with that bad left to Johnson’s jaw. This appeared to anger the big champion, and he went after Jeannette. Many of the blows, which had steam enough behind them to drive Jeannette through the ropes, missed, and as Jeannette straightened up after each ducking he nearly always managed to tap Johnson’s jaw. Johnson fought Joe around the ring, and finally getting him in a corner, rained rights and lefts on his body, one of which blows went low and Jeannette fell to the mat. Johnson, not knowing he had hurt Jeannette, struck him at least twice while the latter was falling.
The Hudson Dispatch reported the following: In the middle of the second round of a fast, interesting contest, at the National Athletic Club last night, Jack Johnson, the colored heavyweight champion laid low Joe Jeannette with a terrific left hand uppercut which landed very low on the Gotham boy. As Jeannette sank to the canvas with a startling groan, the crowd threatened to the title holder bodily harm, and it was due to the fact that a squad of armed policemen entered the ring, in time to prevent some lovers of the Queensbury rules from starting into the ring.
Jeannette was carried unconscious from the ring to his dressing room, where Doctors Ferris and O’Connor, failing to revive him, sent him to the Pennsylvania Hospital. Johnson was placed under arrest and locked up in a nearby station house where he was held until Jeannette entirely recovered from the blow. Jeannette was taken to the station house, but he refused to make any charges against the champion.
Johnson and Jeannette were the principals in the star boxing show at the National Club’s weekly boxing show. The former had every natural advantage, towering over the Jersey man, outclassing him in reach and outweighing him many pounds. There was considerable money bet that Jeannette would not last four rounds, Johnson himself having put up $200.
When the bell summoned the men into action, Johnson appeared the cleverer of the two, having it all over Jeannette. The latter soon got down to business and a long left jab was continually reaching the champion’s jaw. A hard right to the body shook Jack up considerably.
Jeannette kept these tactics in the second round, and Johnson maddened at the thought, threw all reason and rules to the wind, and started to go in and “rough house” it.
Near the end of the second round, he rushed in, swinging both arms wildly, Jeannette backed into the ropes, and as he did so, Johnson released a terrific left uppercut from his knees, hitting the local fighter very low. Jeannette then slowly sank to the floor.

Jeannette was carried unconscious from the ring to his dressing room, where Doctors Ferris and O’Connor, failing to revive him, sent him to the Pennsylvania Hospital. Johnson was placed under arrest and locked up in a nearby station house where he was held until Jeannette entirely recovered from the blow. Jeannette was taken to the station house, but he refused to make any charges against the champion.

Here is another possibility as stated by Pollack after reading all the ringside accounts and those that relied on the wire service for their information..
"Apparently there were some suspicion that there was something fishy about the bout..Clearly this is based on the words this local writer used,he suspected that Johnson had not fouled.

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The local writer who actually saw the bout questioned whether Jeannette had fooled the referee into thinking it was a foul.The police wondered whether the fight had been fixed. This is the reason given for the surveillance of the parties involved.
NB Johnson was not arrested.Jeannette did not lose consciousness.It's Bull Sh*t.

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mcvey,

Here is another possibility as stated by Pollack after reading all the ringside accounts and those that relied on the wire service for their information..
"Apparently there were some suspicion that there was something fishy about the bout..Clearly this is based on the words this local writer used,he suspected that Johnson had not fouled.

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The local writer who actually saw the bout questioned whether Jeannette had fooled the referee into thinking it was a foul.The police wondered whether the fight had been fixed. This is the reason given for the surveillance of the parties involved.
NB Johnson was not arrested.Jeannette did not lose consciousness.It's Bull Sh*t.

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[/QUOTE]

When you post an article its exposing my agenda' my hero worship of Jack Johnson ,who by the way doesn't even make the top twenty list of my favourite fighters..
Who really cares about YOUR top twenty.

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When I post an article it is cherry picking or /and the person who wrote it is," as dopey as me".though that person was actually there and saw the fight , and we don't know if the reporters you have quoted were.

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Let me illustrate this a little. You go to a fight in, say Mexico and witness it first hand.I read about it from a wire service report, we both then give our opinions of it, which one should be given more credence?
That is the significance of a locally sourced report.

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I've just one question for you to answer,which ,in it's turn begs other questions.

Q What is it you wish to achieve with your posts about Joe Jeannette ?

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1.Q Is it to demonstrate that he was one of the top 4 black heavies between1909 and 1915?

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2.Q Is it to say that prime for prime he would have beaten.1.Johnson2.Langford?

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3.Q Is it to show that he deserved a title chance when he was in his prime ? [I've given arbitrary figures of1909-1915].

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4.Q Is it to show that Johnson ducked him whilst he was champion?

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If it is all of the above or some of the above , please say which parts, I've numbered for ease of answering?

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The reason I mentioned the part about Jeannette not being unconscious and Johnson not being arrested is to show that there were inaccuracies in the report you posted.

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Also one of the reports you posted states that Johnson was taken to the Police station and held there.This did not happen .

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Another part says Johnson was fully 6 inches taller than Jeannette,this again is inaccurate.

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So that is 4 inaccuracies just to start with ,that being so why should we believe the rest?

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Now this "fat boy" is coming out of his, "rathole " to engage with some one more grounded, than yourself ,
I'll pop back when you have restored yourself to your comfort.

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Nobody said different but he never did fight the best of his contenders in the big three(Jennette, Langford or even McVea) He fought all three when they were young or novices as in the case of Jennette. So we can all guess as to who was the best of the big four.