Johnson vs Ketchel - Restored

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Nov 2, 2022.

  1. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    I've watched this numerous times and still feel the same way, Johnson was carrying him, in the second round the announcer said the crowd was yelling for Johnson to fight and quit holding and after he dropped Ketchel he acted like nothing had happened, and just boxed. Later I think it was round 10 the announcer stated the obvious, Johnson could ko Ketchel anytime he wanted to. As for the knock down I think it was legitimate ,Jack was careless and was caught off guard and dropped. I mean Jack was punishing , and playing with him, why would he let himself be knocked down? What Johnson then did to Ketchel he could have done at anytime, put him to sleep.
    Pugguy and FrankinDallas like this.
  2. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    Thank you for this.
    Pugguy likes this.
  3. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Have to agree. I think a modern boxer would give both of these guys a pasting and I'm not even talking Holmes or Lewis. I'd bet guys like Morrison, Mercer and Dokes would send them to the hospital.
    robert ungurean likes this.
  4. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Feb 6, 2009
    Johnson looked in excellent condition and he was carrying Ketchel there's no doubt.
    Johnson was catching Ketchel with those left jabs full in the chops and he was like a cat, albeit a big one, playing with a bird or mouse.
    The commentator mentioned the two men hating one another which wasn't what I've heard.
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  5. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    Unforgivable Blackness n Black man v the world r definitely on my wishlist too. Needa dive more into Johnson so thx for helping w that process.
    Pugguy likes this.
  6. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jul 24, 2004
    Thanks, Rezzi.

    Ketchel had to have massive cojones to step in there with Johnson and then 6 months later with Sam Langford. However, he looks awful in films we have of his, expecially the Papke fight. Looks uncoordinated, unskilled and had zero technique, like no head movement at all. Kind of an early Riccardo Mayorga.

    I believe I've read somewhere that Johnson agreed to carry Ketchel for the 20 rounds. I think the idea that Johnson was wiping off Ketchel's teeth was ridiculous; probably just wiping off debris from the canvas.
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  7. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 10, 2005
    It was a heavyweight vs middleweight. I would not use this film to "Judge" Johnson on his skill level since he was out right carrying Ketchel. As said before what Johnson did in the 14th round, he could of done at any time from round 1-14. If Tyson went all out on say Marvin Hagler or what happens if Jake Lamotta did get that fight vs Joe Louis?? They are all going out in 1 or 2 rounds if it was on the level.
  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    May 30, 2019
    I like this recent upload from the creator:

    Armstrong at his brutally best.
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  9. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    Great film but I could do without the soundtrack.
  10. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 21, 2016
    the thing Most Present, though a great Film Improvement, they 'can't fix' what the original Filming DIDN'T Capture and that always seems to be Most of the Actual FIGHTING ...

    So much OLD Footage, only managed to capture, pawing, parriyng, slow measuring uo and of course Grabbing,

    it always misses the actual punching & fighting , it's as if Fast Movement Couldn't be caught right by MOST Old Film Footage.

    because real fighting, in any age of human history, has always been busy & much more active.
  11. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 21, 2016
    Ernie Roderick was a 1st Class tough & beautiful boxer, who could have won a World Welterweight Title in his own right.

    I have always said Roderick vs Zivic should've happened, and would have, absent of a world at war, that fight would have been a great showdown.
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Feb 11, 2005
    Outstanding in every regard.
    70sFan865 likes this.
  13. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    So the old film footage had trouble capturing the good boxing, but had more success recording the bad? That's your theory now?
    klompton2 likes this.
  14. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Feb 10, 2013
    LOL. Exactly. As if the camera was just missing all of the punches and only recording the clinches.
    Bukkake likes this.
  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 22, 2021
    I won’t describe his glove wiping actions in detail - but you can see he’s wiping the wrong glove (read: not the glove the teeth were supposedly embedded in).

    Suffice to say, it was often claimed back then that multiple teeth were lost in fights. I know there were no gum shields but even Willard denied the claims that he lost teeth vs Dempsey.

    I will say that I think there was truth to Liston knocking out several of Bethea’s teeth, especially given the way the ref very carefully removes Wayne’s mouthpiece and looks into it.
    FrankinDallas likes this.