Johnson vs O'Brein. Who won? Here's the report.

Its also possible that in a proper fight ie one going to a decision Johnson would have come in in shape and done to OBrien what Ketchel did.

 

O Brien couldnt beat Burns when he was in his prime ,now past his prime being kod twice by a middleweight you think he beats Johnson who won every round against Burns and played with Ketchel? Johnson was on a guarantee of 5000$ for the fight and thats all he was concerned with .Randy Roberts on the "fight","he entered the ring overweight ,and in poor condtion. Rumours spread that he had been drinking the night before ,and on the day of the fight.It was an uninspired fight.O Briens attack was timid,and Johnsons defenceand counterattack consisted mostly of laughter.He smiled ,he wavedto the crowd ,and made no attempt tohide the purpose ofhis presence ,he was there for the 5000$ gaurantee and nothing more."

 

No ,the accounts I read statye his approach to the fight was "timid",this was against a palpably undertrained Johnson,OBrien couldnt beat Burns when he was in his prime ,what makes you think that ,past his prime he had a realistic chance with Johnson? Honestly I cant see it in all seriousness.

 

Which slick boxer do you think Johnson struggled with?

 

Im not the only one to notice this trend then?
In all honesty the man is entitled to like and dislike any fighter he chooses,but its getting obsessive now,I happen to think Jack Johnson was a great fighter,shitty human being probably but there you are,its just my laymans opinion,Im cool with anyone who diasgrees ,after all what would be the point of a forum if we all had the same opinion?

 

Amazingly there are people who seem to want to convert everybody to their own opinion and then presumably shut the forum down because it no longer has a purpouse.

Not saying Mendoza is one but there are some people who are only here to confront people with diferent opinions.

 

Lets take your points.
"OBrien had a win over a healthy Burns. UNTRUE,he drew with Burns in1906,and lost in 20rds to him in 1907.
"Obrien beat a fresher Fitz" OBrien beat Fitz by a tko in13 rds in1905 to win the LH title. I n1907 Johnson kod Fitz in 2rds ,and never claimed any credit for it,nor should he as Fitz was born in1862! Which means he was 45 when OBrien beat him over 13 rounds ,and 47 when Johnson beat him in2 rounds,what is your point here exactly?
Young Peter Jackson kod OBrien with a legitimate punch coming out of a clinch ,this was in 2 rounds ,the crowd cheered ,but after Jackson left the ring the referee awarded a foul to OBrien,this account is on Box rec.
OBriens resume you mentoined?
he wins theLH title from a 45 year old man who takes him13 rounds is kod twice by a middle weight held to draws by Welterweights I dont see a great resume.
Immediatelt prior to the Johnson fight OBrien fought Ketchel,in the last round of a no decision fight he is kod ,the bell saved him from a ko defeat . Immediately after fighting Johnson in a NO DECISION 6 rounder,remember now NO DECISION,OBrien meets Ketchel again and is laid out in 3 rounds!
Now ask your self why Johnson should have given him a title fight.

 

Question . Why do you keep claiming NO DECISION fights as wins for people?
for example."Clark beat Jeanette,McCarty,Dixie KId ,Levinsky, and Battling Jim Johnson" NO HE DIDNT These were all NO DECISION fights.You are trying to build up Clark as an opponent that Johnson ducke d while Champion ,ok lets look at his resume from 1908 to1915,the time that Johnson was reigning Champion. In 1908 A year before Johnson won the title Clark lost 2 fights to Dixie Kid. Aman who 4 years before when he was in his prime had been a WELTERWEIGHT!.His next biggest fight was in1910when he was kod in 2 rounds by Sam Langford,in 1911 he is held to a draw by middle weight Frank Mantell.Clark never beat Jeanette,JIm Johnson,or Levinsky ,and in 1915 ,Johnson s last year as Champion ,Clark wasbeaten by Sam Mcvey in 10 rounds,why should Johnson have given him a title shot?

 

I think that it comes down to this - Johnson was the type of fighter
that liked his opponent to come bulling in. Jack would either jab
the hell out of the guy OR pummel the fighter with his great uppercut
in close. Johnson was very strong at inside fighting. Yes, he held and
hit, but so did most of the fighters back then. It was allowed or
overlooked by the refs.

Jim Flynn and Al Kaufman were MADE for Johnson. They moved forward and he picked them apart. O'brien had the style to give Jack fits. Darting in and out, and using speed and footwork.

Johnson had to somewhat change his style and become the aggressor
against Willard, since Willard had so much reach on him.

Willard was not a good type of opponent for Jack. Gunboat Smith
also could bang, had a decent jab, and was about 6' 1".
So, Gunboat had a style that also was not good for Jack. Only
thing is that Gunboat was KOED several times when he has still
young/in his prime, so lack of durability might have been a problem
for Gunboat. Though Gunboat beat Langford in their FIRST fight,
Langford destroyed Gunboat in their second fight. Still, stylewise,
Gunboat would probably have given Jack a good fight.

Jack was dropped by Phillip Piersenn in an exhibition fight. Does
anyone have any info on Piersenn?

Jack would have probably easily beaten all of the other "White
Hopes", with the exception of Luther McCarty. Had McCarty
not met with tragedy, I feel that a Johnson-McCarty fight
would have been something!!! Though by the time that McCarty
was experienced enough to fight Johnson, Jack would have been
about the same age that he was when he lost to Willard.

Heres my take on the type of fighter that could take Jack;
1) Needs a good chin or else a good defense, cause Jack was
quick and threw great jabs.
2) Better have good stamina, cause its not likely that Jack will
be taken out early.
3) Good jab essential. Straight punches work way better against
a good defensive fighter. The wild swinging guys were eaten up
by Johnson.

Willard had all of these attributes. Gunboat Smith had a good jab
and stamina, though I'm not convinced that he was all that durable.



Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

"PS: O'Brien KO'd Kaufman. Johnson took Kaufman the distance."

This is the type of remark that looks like piling on against Johnson. We have had post after post dismissing Johnson's wins over the 19 year old McVea, a fighter who had beaten world class fighters in Martin and Carter. Now the 19 year old Kaufman, in his 6th (or perhaps only 2nd) professional fight against a veteran of at least 140 fights is stopped in 17 rounds by O'Brien and a big deal is made of it. Kaufman went on to win 15 straight over the next four years before fighting Johnson, including wins over Jack Twin Sullivan, Olympic champion Sam Berger, Mike Shreck, who beat Burns and ko'd Hart twice, Fireman Jim Flynn, and Jim Barry. Johnson did go the "distance" with Kaufman but the distance was 10 rounds. In his next fight, Kaufman defeated O'Brien.