Johnson vs the following in 1911 and 1912

Johnson not being able to stop Langford is no indication of anything. Eye witness accounts tell of Johnsons complete mastery. Langford had to be taken to the hospital afterwards. Dan Morgan who saw the bout live stated Johnson "could have ended the bout any time he liked."

 

You keep quoting one line from a referee concerning one fight as though that automatically accounts for all his bouts.

I never suggested Johnson was like Wlad or Ruiz, I said Johnson used to grab opponents biceps and squeeze them and he did
.

 

I call any 5' 7" heavyweight small.
Choynski was named as the hardest puncher they faced by:
Sharkey
Fitz
Johnson
Jeffries
That will do for me.

In his 1958 book, 50 Years at Ringside, Nat Fleischer, founder of The Ring, produced the testimony of his father-in-law, Dad Phillips, who allegedly saw the fight.
Said Phillips: “Jack Johnson decisively defeated Sam Langford. He was complete master of the situation. Jack so far outclassed Langford that for a time, until he purposely eased up on his onslaughts, the fight was one-sided


Why do you persist in saying MEET?
It isn't as if you haven't been told about it enough times :huh

 

You are literally phobic in your hatred aren't you?:-(

 

Johnson Flynn is a very typical Johnson fight....aside from the head butts from Flynn. This is why I am quoting the ref. Also if you read the newspaper accounts of Johnsons bout with Jeffries there is more mention of JEFFRIES holding than Johnson. Watching the bout you see more or less similar tactics used by Johnson. Comments by Fitz,Corbett, Burns etc call it a very clean but one sided fight. None of them, none of them......mention any foul tactics by Johnson. None of them......none of them mention that Johnson was holding. Reason why it's not mentioned is........ He was not holding.

 

I have read the two definitive volumes of Jack Johnson by Adam Pollack and 3 others including "Unforgivable Blackness".
I think I'm up to speed with the newspaper quotes and primary sourced material on him.

Here is a brief summary of the Flynn bout.

"The referee repeatedly warned Flynn for head-butting. (Fight film shows Flynn head-butting, apparently trying to get loose while the taller Johnson constantly holds him at the back of his upper arms. Flynn reportedly hurled racial epithets at Johnson, too.) The sheriff climbed into the ring to stop this bout and referee Smith awarded it to Johnson on a foul"

 

I relooked just this morning at newspapers from the day after Johnson vs Jeffries. All the aforementioned info came from that examination No mention of Johnson fouling or holding in a bout where everyone would be looking for anything to give their man a win. All you read is about Johndons greatness as a fighter by those who should know great boxing...... Fitz, Corbett and Burns. (Plus the most racist of writers along with those obviously more progressive). If indeed Johnson was holding you would have read it there in black and white. There is actually more mention of JEFFRIES holding than Johnson! The one thing that needs to be understood is the interpretation of filmed fights is only as good as the interpreter. This is why Marciano is thought of as a wild no skilled slugger by many, why Dempseys great boxing skills are rarely mentioned etc. It's because original live observations are ignored and replaced by modern interpretations of grainy silient film. Film where skills are masked by its herky jerky nature. Now that's not to say Johnson NEVER fouled.....Johnson had to be ultra careful not to foul because he knew he could be easily DQed. Everyone was gunning for him.

 

Once again...... The ref stated in black and white. Johnson was NOT HOLDING. FLYNN WAS FREE TO PUNCH". Last time I checked the ref is THE ultimate decision maker as per the rules of the fight.

 

originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Clinching was different, but Johnson hit and held at the same time, hit on breaks, fouled by going low, and did underhanded things such as pinching his opponents arms. These tactics worked on the smaller, or shot fighters.

None of these things were legal.

More like your defense of this wife beater is very Malcolm X like.

All that I wrote was 100% true.

 

Here are quotes from a newspaper the day after the Johnson Flynn bout. No great mention of holding within many pages of fight coverage.

"When Flynn would rush Johnson would cleverly keep him off with his long left or they would clinch. It was this that Flynn claimed was holding. If it was it was very cleverly executed as Flynns short reach would not allow him to land no matter the distance and in close Johnson nearly always had him blocked"

Protests regarding holding
" Flynn kept calling in the sixth round for Johnson to stop holding. The excitement became intense as the crowd thought Flynn was hurting Johnson but the negro only smiled and jabbed Jim after he was warned for butting. At the start of the ninth round Johnson told the ref "This man is butting and fouling. I thought you would be fairer to me". The ref was evidently about to give the fight to Johnson on a foul as he could not do otherwise the way things were going when the captain of police stepped in and halted the bout"

Round five
....".I can't fight while he is holding me" shouted Flynn.....no mention of the ref warning Johnson for holding.
Round six
Flynn butted with his head three times and complained it was justifiable because of Johnsons holding him. FLYNN was severely reprimanded for butting the champion and it looked as if he was seeking a loophole to stem the beating by Johnson. Johnson dazzled the fireman with his speed landing lefts and rights to his face. Flynn was again warned for butting and the champion this time objected strenuously. "he is holding me" was Flynns excuse. Johnson maddened landed a volley of punches. Then he stopped himself apparently with a view of prolonging the contest.
Round seven
"Wait a minute" Johnson cried to a spectator who had shouted for him to end it.

The description of the bout continues with no mention that Johnson was committing any fouls.

So what you read here are fleeting mentions ofFlynn complaining of holding but nothing that says Johnson is indeed fouling. No mention that the ref warns Johnson about holding.

 

Objective ****ysis of fights and fighters cannot be clouded by said fighters personal life. Do we try to diminish Frazier for having a mistress with him in Manilla? Do we try to make Ali a lesser fighter because he was married and divorced multiple times and had known mistresses during his fighting career? Of course not. A clouded perspective is a perspective that should not be considered.

 

You don't seriously think anyone gives any importance
to any of your posts do you?

RIGINALLY? MALOXOM?
I'd give more credence to that of a Chimp.

 

Like I said ,read the books.

 

If we did SRR would not come out too well would he, a serial womanizer and wife beater whose fists caused his wife to miscarriage at least twice.