Johnson Willard: Dive or KO

WLad was kod 3 times in his prime, Johnson was never kod in his prime .
Johnson's chin was ANVIL LIKE

 

Legit KO!

 

The fight appeared on the level in my opinion.

 

Even at 37, Jack's performance in Havana raises questions about what might have happened had he somehow managed to arrive in Jeffries condition, at a ripped 208 instead of a "hog fat" 225 (his highest weight for any title fight, although he was scaling 242 in Spain a year later).

 

So I guess Stanley Ketchel was an all time hard hitting heavyweight :roll:

 

To be fair, the punch that Ketchel dropped him with landed on his ear.

 

HeGrant - you can't be suggesting that the Ketchel thing was actually real!!?? Please please please HeGrant and any others out there who can't seem to see what's happening in front of them - that was a dive on Johnson's part (and a bad one too) - play this vid which has a slow mo of the 'knockdown' - please please please everybody pause at exactly the 4:14 mark which is when Stan has just begun to fling his overarm right for all he is worth - if you pause it at exactly 4:14 you will see that Stan arm is parralel with his own shoulder and check Johnson left leg nearest the camera - he has already begun the motion of slipping the leg out under himself to tilt and fall forward - hence why there is then no resistance - no connect moment because the punch whistles harmlessly over the already ptiching forward Johnson bowed head - Ketchel actually carries on past the falling Johnson almost throwign himself off balance due to the swing and a miss - there is flat out no punch connecting - how anyone can even dispute that is completely beyond me - if anyone wants to know what it looks like when a punch does really land just watch what happens when Johnson get up :yep

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMZQUCVrN6I[/ame]

Now can we all get a grip and just accept that the Stanley Ketchel thing was just a complete joke - the whole fight was totally bogus for christ sake - you saw what happened the moment Johnson turned it into the real thing - what don't people get? :huh

 

He was an alltime hard hitting middleweight who scaled over 170lbs when he fought Johnson ,none of it fat.

I don't suggest anywhere in my posts that Ketchel 's power compares with the super heavyweight punchers,but it was certainly not neglible, four months prior to the Johnson fight, he had kod the Light heavyweight Champ Jack O Brien.

Seven months after being kod by Johnson ,Ketchel kod fringe heavyweight contender Porky Flynn in 3 rds.

Ketchel had a 75% ko ratio, not too shabby, he could probably hit as hard as someone like Floyd Patterson, I should think.


Last time I watched the film of the fight, Ketchel knocks Johnson down ,Jack gets up, and kos him with his first punch ,have you seen a different ending?

N B. I am half in agreement with Rocky SN, Johnson appears to be falling before the punch even lands.
Gunboat Smith,who sparred with both men prior to the fight stated it was a fake knockdown,and there are people who went on record including Barney Curley the promoter who state it was practised before the fight in his home.He said Ketchel couldn't pull his shots and Johnson said ,basically, lets just go with the flow.
Any one who does not think Johnson was carrying Ketchel should watch another sport.
I suggest wrestling would suit.

Further to this Ketchel kod Mike Twin Sullivan in 20rds.
Three months previously Sullivan had held Jim Flynn to a 20rds draw.
Sullivan won and drew with heavyweights,such as
Rodel, Davis, Flynn x3,Beat Kaufman [despite conceding 32lbs],went 20rds to a draw with Gunboat Smith ,a puncher,drew with Joe Jeannette,MIke Shreck, and fought Ross 4 times to decisions, twice drew with Tommy Burns , yet could not survive against Ketchel.
Stan was the man.

 

In a boxing documentary I saw some years ago, boxing historian Jimmy Jacobs said Jack Johnson would rather have people believe he threw the Willard fight instead of having them believe he lost it.

Jacobs thought Willard's victory was an honest one. He said Johnson would not have put himself through 26 rounds of 100 degree heat if he intended throwing the fight.

 

Bull****. He was hophead, drunk who smoked a pack a day and wouldn't last 4 rounds with Bernard Hopkins.

I suppose if Martinez were to KD a Klitschko, or even a Haye, this same lot of Johnson apologists would note Sergio was great hitter at 160 and such events are to be excused even when judging heavies.

 

he lost early in his career by Ko..and then later...i guess if you want to go with the techincality that he was never KO'ed fine but he was actually ko 'ed a few times...

but to then say willard was ko'ed in his prime is bull****...he got ko'ed in a very early fight (like johnson did more then once) then when he was at the end of the line by Dempsey and then Firpo

 

Of course you are right, Ketchel was crap.:good
Couldnt punch to save his life,those 48 kos he had in his 51 wins were all dives.

 

Post said Johnson was never kod in his prime.:deal

Willard's name was never mentioned.:huh
Since you have mentioned it, Willard quit against Joe Cox , he was not kod.

Willard was 43 when he lost to Firpo.

 

Keep up the good work Boucher. So you joined the board in Dec 2010? There was another poster who disappeared around the same time who had the same views as you did.

 

Did you disagree with him too.:huh
Why did he leave ?

Was he banned?

Did you humiliate him into vanishing, with your powers of logical debate?

Was he outclassed by your facility for incisive argument?

What was his name?

Where did he go?

Will he be back?


What were his views?

Does he keep in touch with you ,or have you spurned him?

All these questions are thirsting to be answered.