Who knows what would have happened? Just some thoughts: - Bringing in Toney as a supposed ATG and telling people Jones would have done to Calzaghe what he did to Toney is plain wrong. Tones was always a stationary target (and counter puncher with no offense himself) and all he could do to defend hinmself was the occasional shoulder roll. Calzaghe fights from all angles (and unlike Toney even on the backfoot) and nowhere in hell could a prime Jones pick his own punches at will against Calzaghe. - People say Roy was just overwhelmed by puch output. But they seem to forget that even a prime RJJ had a very low punch output. In yesterdays fight RJJ threw about 450 punches and that´s problably more than he has ever before. So the question remains: what would a prime RJJ have done differently (maybe except for hitting more precisely). - Roy always had this tendency to lean on the ropes and do his occasional flurry. People say Roy was in his prime against Clinton Woods or JC Gonzales when he fought like that. But I know one thing for sure. Had he fought Calzaghe like that (on the ropes) he would have clearly lost. Woods and the others simply couldn´t capitalize on that, but Calzaghe knows how to fight someone with a turtle shell defence. - People say RJJ is flat footed nowadays and act as if a prime Roy had Ali´s footwork. In fact RJJ always used wide steps to close the distance between him an his opponent. He might have been flashier back then but people seem to forget Roy steroid abuse in his prime. Strangely noone mentions that when they talk about his strengh and flashiness. That´s quite silly in my opinion because doping is a big performance enhancing factor in any sport. The only thing that doping won´t change is your hand speed and that is still there. So maybe the RJJ nowadays gives us an impression how he would have been back then without his cheating: Fast, but only fast.
STFU nuthugger, first of all Toney was the best P4P in the world before he fought RJJ, he didn't hide in England behind WBOGUS title, and step to ATG's when they were old as ****, the way Slappy did. Atleast RJJ and Toney had the balls to fight ATGs in thier prime unlike Slappy. Both Haye and Hatton are more respectable than this overrated cherry picker, Hatton may have got KTFO but atleast he had the balls to step to a peak ATG, something Slappy would never do, deserves all the hate he gets.
Maybe Roy was never as good as you thought. Joe was clowning Roy and Roy was clowning garbage men in his prime. The difference is: those garbage men had less hand speed, experience and ring generalship than yesterday´s Roy.
Ummm, Roy was clowning a young Bernard Hopkins, a prime James Toney and heavyweight John Ruiz, among many others in his prime. Not garbagemen.
I disagree. He only ridiculed garbage men the way he got ridiculed yesterday. Against Hopkins or Ruiz he actually had to fight. But that´s not what this thread is about. The claims of the intial posting would be worth being discussed.
jones an hopkins out priced them selves with joe,,,showtime was going to give hopkins a fight deal with joe in the mix, but hopkins turned it down for less money with hbo,,,calzahe went to hbo to get big names,,,an for what it is worth, joe fought lacy, an before he destroyed him, lacy was the next big thing,,,but sence he was beat by joe, he now over-rated, i guess hopkins is over rated,
He would get the same result, but in a different way. He had the blueprint in the Richard Hall fight--now I'm not comparing Hall to Calzaghe skillwise, but they are both lefties who threw a lot of punches. Roy would circle to his right, bob in and out, and lead with left hooks and come back up with an uppercut followed by another left hook. This would most likely be his strategy for this fight, because he was capable of throwing these kinds of combinations. We saw nothing like that in last night's fight. If he had the handspeed to throw--and land--those kinds of combinations along with the reflexes he had at his prime--and we can reasonably assume he did, based on his ability to hit Calzaghe early in the fight, while still fresh at this very late in his career-he would have had a field day with Joe. There's something to be said about precision punching. Look at the facts; when Roy punched Joe, he moved him back. He knocked Joe back in the first 2 rounds when he was still active, and he had luck with the straight right to the body--not a punch he is particularly known for, which also tells us that he can gameplan for a fighter. He also knocked Joe down in the first round, a point in the fight when he would have been as close as he would get to his prime self. It was when Roy stopped throwing with intent that Joe started really finding success. From this we can assume that if Roy's current power has some effect on Joe, the power from earlier on in his career would also, and if sustained--which Roy had the ability to do in his prime, to fight a full 12--he would have a field day with Joe. There is another point about precision punching to make here too; when Roy knocked Joe down it was with a puch that he landed with the inside of his glove or his wrist. One thing that no one can deny about Roy is that in his prime, he threw punches with consitant lethal accuracy about as well as anyone who ever laced up a pair of gloves. If one punch from Roy, that lands on the laces, is enough to drop and hurt Calzaghe, that tells me that a precision combo like the one described previously, or a double lead right hand thrown on a fighter coming in like Joe does could be disastrous. Prime Roy probably takes this fight in 4 or fewer rounds, although if it went further, he had the stamina to keep fighting a boxer for all 12 rounds, as he showed numerous times in his career. The last argument of a hater. Go watch some of Roy's fights and then come back when you've gained a little knowledge. In Roy's prime he was not 'Fast, but only fast'. He was fast, yeah, but he was also powerful, adaptable, threw punches from insane angles and in combinations that no one could see coming, controlled the ring, including against a master boxer and legit ATG at his prime and best weight, was nearly unhittable and went years without losing a round. Steroids can only do so much, they can't make you a master boxer. Your claims are wrong. Get some knowledge before you go barking away about things you have no knowledge of.
Uncle Paulie: Your last comment wasn´t the one of a new born democrat. That was still that age old republican hatred thing that apparently took over for a few seconds. => Roy does not take this in 4 because he didn´t even came close to stopping 40 year olds like McCallum. And he was unable to stop great fighters due to his notorious lack of workrate and his fear of getting caught. His punching power might have been better while being doped - or maybe not as he generated power from his spped (which is still there). Unlike you I saw him hitting Calzaghe flush and it had no effect on Calzaghe. He just walked through these punches as even the HBO crew realized. Hey and that knock down was nothing but luck: First of all it would habe been impossible for any boxer to see that punch in this situation (very much like Tarver´s KO over Jones) and secondly it was a wrongly timed punch (he hit him with his wrist). => You can´t say Roy had hit Calzaghe even better in his prime because Calzaghe would have employed a better denfense against a risky opponent. => Secondly: it was luck. Luck can´t be reproduced at will. It´s the same with Calzaghe: he cut Jones badly but that was luck, too. Calzaghe never was and never will be a big hitter. Many harder hitting guys never came close to cutting RJJ´s face. Both things where luck. Just that.
If Joe was getting dropped and wobbled by the like of Byron Mitchell and Kabary Salem at his prime, who were far less effective at combining precision and power along with sneakyness, then against a prime Jones it is only a matter of which round it happened. In the first two rounds, Roy was drving Calzaghe back; those clean shots were having an effect. When he started to gas they didn't. Prime Roy doesn't gas after 2 rounds. I acknowledge in my original that it was a poorly landed punch, but the reason it knocked Calzaghe was because it was a short punch, thrown from an odd angle which anticipated landing where Calzaghe's head was going to be; he landed this sort of short, odd, unseen shot a couple of times in the first couple of rounds. Imagine that X 12 and you have what Roy would have done in his prime. Cazaghe in his prime was there to be hit, and again, if Mitchell and Salem were knocking him down in his prime, Roy would destroy him. Having watched a number of Calzaghe fights, It is clear that he was there to be hit. Roy hits him enough and its lights out. The knockdown was a product of Joe getting caught by a well timed and well aimed, unorthodox shot that landed badly. Joe in his prime would still catch shots like that; if those come from a Byron Mitchell or a Kabary Salem, they knock him down; if he catches those from a prime Roy Jones they knock him out. Frankly, even if it goes the distance it is a moot point, as Jones had the stamina to hang in there for 12 rounds and fight a full fight. If he employs the tactics that he was able to emply against Calzaghe over a full 12 he wins. Before you say that Calzaghe would have been better at his prime too, just think that we are currently watching a Joe Calzaghe who it can be fairly said is about 70-80% of what he was in his prime, Roy Jones is about 20-30% of what he was at his prime; the difference is huge, and either way Roy beats Calzaghe. Personally I think it is in the middle rounds, but he had the skill-set and physical tools to thoroughly beat Calzaghe prime for prime over the course of 12.
dud, jones would have like totally pickapapwnd cal back in the day yall. he'd have thrown more punches, would have landed clean hard shots every time Joe tried his leaning in hands down nonsense. Would have worked in hard shots to the body, would have thrown combos and kicked ccalazghe'sc **** sakc face!!!!! GIBBBABABBO!
dud, jones would have like totally pickapapwnd cal back in the day yall. he'd have thrown more punches, would have landed clean hard shots every time Joe tried his leaning in hands down nonsense. Would have worked in hard shots to the body, would have thrown combos and kicked ccalazghe'sc **** sakc face!!!!! GIBBBABABBO!
Hmm, well on first glance you appear to be missing some names from both lists (Trinidad, Woods, Mitchell, Brewer for example). But this does bring up a valid point. Is Jones win over Del Valle, for instance, more impressive just because Del Valle managed to find a vacant title to pick up? Does Tarver automatically gain stature because he picked up a couple of titles, even though he never successfully defended one? Have you really proved anything other than (a) Jones has had more fights than Calzaghe and (b) it's traditionally been somewhat easier for a reasonably average American fighter to pick up a 'World' title than his counterparts from other parts of the world?
