Jones Jr, Hopkins, Toney. Rate these 3 as H2H fighters.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Something I've been pondering today.

    Usually I go for the easy option and say Jones is clearly the better fighter as he beat them both very clearly.

    But then if I imagine them against a field of their peers, I actually think I rate Jones bottom of the pile.

    For example the likes of Golovkin, McClellan, Apostoli etc I think they'd all knock Jones out. But would all lose to both Toney and Hopkins.

    I tend to think the only way to beat Hopkins is by being an athletic freak.

    I tend to think the only way to beat Toney is by being an athletic freak or being strong enough to bull him.

    I tend to think the only way to beat Jones is by being an expert counter puncher, big enough to bully him or a durable big punching pressure fighter

    It seems to me that against a field of peers, assuming all fights come off and no one ducks anyone, even though Jones beats these two, he loses to more fighters than these two as well.

    What do others think?
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    #1
  2. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I disagree.

    Jones obviously beats Toney and Hopkins h2h and whips GGG and McClellan. Apostoli I haven’t watched enough of to say either way.

    Jones showed zero chin issues from 160-168 and really only looked fragile after turning 35 and gaining and dropping weight fast.

    G-Man I can see a case for beating Jones (I don’t see it happening but an argument could be made) but Golovkin is too small and slow to do squat with Roy imo. A great fighter but Jones would outmanoeuvre and pot shot him to a wide UD every day of the week.

    Good thread btw.
     
    young griffo, Jul 7, 2020
    young griffo, Jul 7, 2020
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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    He didn't show chin issues per se, but he didn't face any bangers.

    Had he beaten say Jackson, McClellan, Benn I might give him that edge against punchers.

    I don't have my mind fully made up either way tbh.

    I don't think his chin cracks against just anyone but I also don't think he's this H2H monster some people make out.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    When it comes to styles in boxing, it's very much Rock, Paper, Scissors. Frazier beats Ali, Foreman beats Frazier but Ali beats Foreman. In this instance, I tend to agree that Jones is better than Toney and B-Hop, but not by much.

    All three have differing stylistic weaknesses IMO which mean they perform better vs different opponents. For example: Jones has a weakness to swarmers whereas Toney eats them alive. Jones' athleticism makes him brilliant vs out-boxer types since he can get off first, whereas Toney's style means he has to go looking for them (which obviously wasn't his strong suit).

    Jones liked to fight at his own range and pace, so this is what he had the stamina to do. He often stayed on the ropes and took big shots to the body. Swarmers should be able to capitalise on this, but since Jones has ridiculous fast-twitch power it means they have to weather an unholy storm to do it. So he kinda bypasses a bad style match up.

    As for Jones losing to McClellan, GGG and Apostle, I couldn't disagree more. I think he'd toy with the three of them TBH, and the only way he loses is by a fluke one-punch KO. In fact, there's very few middleweights I'd pick over Jones Jr.
     
    George Crowcroft, Jul 7, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Jul 7, 2020
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  5. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    George's post is spot on.

    But, keeping it simple:

    Jones

    Toney

    Hopkins
     
    Smokin Bert, Jul 7, 2020
    Smokin Bert, Jul 7, 2020
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  6. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1. Jones
    2. Toney
    3. Hopkins
     
    THE BLADE 2, Jul 7, 2020
    THE BLADE 2, Jul 7, 2020
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  7. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair call but I think he was an absolute h2h monster.

    Toney and Hopkins were routinely banging people out until they met Jones and he rendered them obsolete. I think it says more about Roys prowess at the point he met them than any lack of power on their part. They had power but Jones was flat out better than them and I rate Toney andHopkins way above GGG and G-Man.
     
    young griffo, Jul 7, 2020
    young griffo, Jul 7, 2020
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  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    But they were never the type to pressure someone and then knock them out like you would have to with Jones.

    Or they didn't wear someone down over the stretch.

    They were both more boxers than punchers, they could just hit hard but their style didn't rely on it.

    I think they would both beat GGG and McClellan but I still think the latter two would bang Jones out.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
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  9. Bujia

    Bujia Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I rate them in the same order you listed them in the thread title.
     
    Bujia, Jul 7, 2020
    Bujia, Jul 7, 2020
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  10. Bujia

    Bujia Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jones would make a fool out of McClellan.
     
    Bujia, Jul 7, 2020
    Bujia, Jul 7, 2020
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  11. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great post, George. Cheers
     
    Clinton, Jul 7, 2020
    Clinton, Jul 7, 2020
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  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The thing is for me, I don't see him toying with a huge power puncher trying to walk through him.

    I see him landing some big shots, so they would have to be durable enough to weather the storm, but toying with, not imo.

    I just don't see his chin holding up to intense pressure.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
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  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Tell you what, give me some homework.

    Tell me which fights of Jones I should watch to convince me he can handle big punching pressure fighters.


    The closest thing I have off the top of my head is Glen Johnson, but I'm not mentioning that because I don't want the thread to derail lol.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    lufcrazy, Jul 7, 2020
    #13
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Sosa. Griffin 2.
     
    George Crowcroft, Jul 7, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Jul 7, 2020
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  15. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    People were thinking McClellan would blow Jones and Toney out in two or three rounds without pillow gloves and head guards. The Kronk guys.
     
    Bulldog24, Jul 7, 2020
    Bulldog24, Jul 7, 2020
    #15
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