Jones needs legs to win against Calzaghe.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Shake, Nov 8, 2008.


  1. RealIzm

    RealIzm Boxing Junkie banned

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    ^ I never knew Sloth from the Goonies was a boxer
     
  2. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I never watched the Goonies at all.


    Wait, why am I talking about the Goonies on a boxing forum?

    Real! :gsg
     
  3. Hermit

    Hermit Loyal Member banned

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    I said months ago that RJJ needed a set of lungs to be competitive in this fight. If I know it RJJ knows it. Has he been able to tailor his workouts to grow a new set? We shall see.
     
  4. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I stand behind my preview post-fight. This fight almost doesn't say anything about a prime Jones vs Calzaghe match-up since Jones didn't have his legs and the real thing would play out so differently, becomes such a different match that it's hard to draw any conclusions from this one.

    Except that Calzaghe would make it competitive.
     
  5. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member

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    bumped for reality checking purposes.
     
  6. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    It turns out Jones was more than legless...he was plan-less, heart-less, he didn't even counterpunch the Welshman even for a couple of rounds, to show us how good he would have been had he not been badly faded/shot; he just came in, didn't take risks, didn't give it his all, took a punching-bag style beating and collected his cheque, pleased he had survived 12 rounds...I was disappointed, Shake...
     
  7. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Decebal, Jones' plans, ring generalship and techniques were all built and cultivated around his athleticism. Most of what he knows is useless now because he doesn't enjoy the advantages he used to -- he cannot exploit the holes he sees in his opponents because his legs aren't like lightning, his reflexes are no longer as if he starred in the Matrix, and because of his poor legs his punching power has diminished since he, as Mike Tyson did, used his lower legs as a spring to generate force.

    "Sure," one can say. "That means he was never a great boxer. He just had physical gifts that towered over anyone else."

    While partly true, this stance, I feel, is too harsh. Ali was the same, Tyson was the same, Foreman was the same, to give a current example, Antonio Margarito would have more losses than wins if he had a subpar chin. Every fighter tailors what they do and how they fight around their strong points.

    Jones' strong points have almost completely eroded. All he can do is stand around, conserve energy, guard high and use his only remaining weapon, his handspeed, to try and counter.

    There simply wasn't much he could do. He doesn't have the defense of Hopkins because he never needed it -- nor does he know how to work behind a jab since it was unnecesary for the largest part of his career.

    The only thing this shows us, imo, is that if Roy Jones was ever hurt bad enough that his legs turned to jelly, he would have been extremely vulnerable. Perhaps...he knew, and it was the reason he was so extremely careful in the ring.
     
  8. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Shake, as far as I can make out, Jones' game was never based on his speed of foot, or footwork in general, but on his speed of hand and reactions...which is very different. He lunged at people and hit them flush, knocking them down. He didn't use his footwork to keep great distance, etc, nor did he get on his bike so they couldn't touch him, using great footwork. He just jumped out of the way or moved his upperbody out of the way!

    About Margarito...people say he is not a great figther, because if it wasn't for his toughness, chin and stamina, he'd be average. They are wrong, of course! The qualities he has are as important as speed, power, footwork, ring-intelligence, etc.

    AND...I'm not saying Jones wasn't a great fighter at his peak!!! Of course he was! He was one of the greatest ever, around his weight-class...but once he lost the qualities that made him great, he couldn't compensate with other qualities...like Hopkins can, for example. In that sense, he is less complete a fighter, and a lesser Champion, in my view, because he couldn't even come back from the dumps, like great Champions could. He couldn't develop his game to overcome the decline in speed and reactions. He couldn't use his experience and ring-smarts to fight in a different way and still be amazing...


    ...yet...he still went into the ring, without giving his all or doing his best to win, showing at least heart...after saying he was back and better than for a long time...now...a great champion doesn't do that; he retires...this is all I'm saying.:good
     
  9. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am essentially agreeing with you, but with one addition -- the skills B-Hop and Calzaghe learned were useful during their prime. The skills Roy Jones needs now were useless to him during his prime, hence he doesn't have them.

    And no, he never had great footwork, but he used his fast, explosive legs to stay away and then pop in in a variety of ways, all of which is useless now.

    What I'm essentially saying is that Jones' was indeed spoiled by his own speed and power -- and never learned the craft properly, instead going for a warped variant built around his athleticism.

    Take away the athleticism, and you're left with the flaws. But, perhaps, add the athleticism and unorthodox techniques and you may have a more optimally rigged fighter than if he chose to fight using the fundamentally sound and accepted techniques.
     
  10. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    This is what I think too!:good
     
  11. PirateGorilla

    PirateGorilla Active Member Full Member

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    Great pre-fight assessment.
     
  12. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thank you. This topic is getting tired, so I won't bump it anymore after this one.