Jones v Hagler @ MW

Have to take into account Del Valle had sparred (38 rounds) with Jones.

 

bias has nothing to do with it. it's a fact that Ray ducked Hagler in his prime and even did so publicly in Baltimore Oct. 10, 1982

and it's also a fact that he quit right after the Kevin Howard fight

the problem is you have no way of denying it so naturally you now prefer to drop the subject

You love saying things like "Ray would always have the style to beat Marvin"

It's just that with me around to keep you honest, you aren't able to get away with it

 

Jones at MW is the very best of all time in my opinion.

If Hagler's chin was anything short of iron, I would have said Jones wins by KO (that in itself is a very controversial opinion I have). But Hagler = iron, so I predict Jones would have won by around 5 rounds.

 

This is completely routine in boxing. Former and future sparring mates compete against one another all the time.

 

Anubis,

Great post, and I'm sorry for the late reply.

Good point. It's all about styles and the circumstances though.

I think Roy would still have taken it on points in a technical match, but just a little easier, making it a little wider on the cards.

I'd assume that Roy would have seen him as a huge threat, and he would had to have been as elusive as possible. I can't envisage him getting into a shoot out. I think he'd have been very cautious for the most part.

This is why this is such a great debate.

We really can't be certain how each guy would have approached the fight.

I think Marvin's best option would have been to go to war. But I don't think he would have. I don't think he'd have jumped on him like he did with Hearns.

I don't know. It's fun to speculate though.

Would Marvin have had more respect for Roy, than the other opponents he took out?

Have you ever watched Roy's fight with Del Valle in full? Have you seen it recently?

He caught Roy with a good shot to the temple, but Roy went down hard because his right foot slipped from under him, due to the canvas being wet. Leading up to the knockdown, the referee had to call a timeout on two occasions, to ask for a towel from the corner so he could wipe excess water away. Roy also stumbled on a few occasions in the earlier rounds. All throughout the fight, you could see water dripping from Roy's shorts.

The more I watch it, the more I'm convinced that had the canvas been dry, he'd have stayed on his feet.

Go back and have a look. See what you think. The best view of it is the slowmo from the overhead camera angle.

I think if Marvin had've caught him flush, he'd have been in serious trouble.

Tarver caught him with a beautiful shot.

If Marvin could have caught him with that same shot, the ending could have been the same.

In my opinion, Calzaghe and Lebedev aren't really relevant to this debate.

You're right, when Roy was younger he didn't have much experience with top class southpaws. He did fight Frankie Liles 2/3 times though, and he sparred Reggie Johnson.


:good

 

Like I've just mentioned to Anubis, the more I watch the knockdown, the more I'm convinced that he'd have stayed on his feet, had his right foot not have slipped on the wet canvas.

 

You hate Ray.

Ray was also way past his best in 87.

Ray may have ducked Marvin earlier, but he didn't fight anyone else did he? He was retired.

I've never said that Ray had the style to beat Marvin. I said that in my opinion, Ray's speed would always have caused Marvin serious issues, as would Roy's.

 

I don't like 160 Roy's chances against many great middleweights, and Hagler is no exception.

He just wasn't there yet before he outgrew the class. Look at the top middleweights of the early 90's, and you'll see Roy fought none of them. And that includes Hopkins, who himself didn't beat a rated middleweight at all until well after the Jones fight.

He'd grow and mature into a force and was able to prove that as time went on, but his 160 run was, for me, prudent matchmaking at its best. I didn't see enough to favor him over a seasoned southpaw buzz saw like Hagler even with the size advantage.

He just wasn't ready yet.

 

Roy didn't make any waves at MW, because his father wouldn't let him fight anyone. Then after he'd beaten Bernard, he only made one defence of his title.

Yes, Roy was ready at MW. He knocked out Malinga at SMW just after he'd beaten Hopkins, and then after a few more keep busy fights, he blew away Thomas Tate less than 6 months before fighting Toney. So you can put forward the version of Roy from the Tate fight to discuss any fantasy fights at MW.

 

Finally got a conclusive answer. For Saturday's JWW fight against Provodnikov, Showtime listed Molina as having put on 20 pounds overnight (to 160). When asked about it afterward, he explained that he was fully dressed with his cellphone and other things in his pocket and that the scale used was a cheap drug-store model. He estimated that he only put on 14-lbs or so (still a lot).

 

The funny thing is marciano in this list lmao,dropped by. 40 years old former mw and lhw