Jones v Hagler @ MW

I 99% agree with this post, but it is completely false to compare Jones and Ali. Once Ali's lightning reflexes ,and athleticism deserted him he still found ways to win at the highest level.

Jones just got KTFO.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. Going to the ropes and standing there getting hit and not hitting back, is NOT great fundamentals. That is what actually happened when Jones reflexes deserted him. He relied totally on reflexes and athleticism.

I'll give you an example of someone with great fundamentals. At 4 months short of 38 Duran won the WBC Middleweight title.

At 38 Jones had been sparked twice back to back, was fighting bums, or guys coming off 3 year lay offs angling for Mickey Mouse titles, because the guys fighting for the " legitimate " titles were too good for him.

And it is all down to having no fundamentals worth mentioning.

 

Sounds like Ali. Anyway, I wasn't talking about a shot Jones. That's not the best measuring stick.

 

I'll have to rewatch some time but it sure looked like it was those headbutts (which were probably more Vito's fault than Hagler's) the last time I caught it.

 

I agree that Jones had plenty of skill but I wouldn't call them "great fundamentals." Fundamentals are overrated though, at least until you need them anyway... A bunch of his skills involved techniques and tactics that required skill and strategy but were really only possible because of his amazing reflexes and speed.

 

I shocked by anyone rating Jones as number 1 at light heavyweight .. as far as at 160, he did have the size, speed and power to possibly decision Hagler .. one of the very few at 160 to be able to .. at 175 in recent memory I don't se him beating Spinks, Qwai or Mustafa Muhammad .. I see him have a hell of a time holding off a prime Saad Muhammad as well ... this is just the 1980's guys ..

 

Helluva fight. The one fight I can't truly pick a winner and changes depending on the batch of coffee I drink.

Hagler needs to crowd RJJ and really put on the pressure throughout the whole fight. RJJ has the speed and quickness to make Hagler look like a mess, as well as the power to make him honest. I can see Roy landing quite often but Hagler can ship them better than anyone in history, and that includes Toney and Hopkins.

I think Hagler's kryptonite is speed.

Edit: I envision RJJ winning by a smidgen more often than Hagler 51%/49%. That's how close it is.

 

This is a wrong debate guys.

The real debate is Hagler vs W. Klitschko.

In my opinion, Hagler stalks Wladimir and stops him late.

Too much chin, too much pressure, too much skills.

Oh sorry, I forgot I'm not in fantasy land.

How can so much people pick Hagler ? I wonder if its only for fun or they are delusional. If so, its sad.

Jones UD.

Too much speed/power/size difference.

 

At 23 000 posts maybe you should be able to read.

This is the classic forum.
Dont you know every old fighter wins fantasy fights while nearly being always overmatched.

 

How could it have been?

He had a fractured right hand.

He was tense because of it, and because it was his first title fight after 4 years of frustration.

Hopkins was the best guy he fought at MW, but Roy was at his best against Tate. He was ultra sharp and confident. He'd just knocked out Malinga at SMW, and he was looking towards a Superfight with Toney. He was absolutely devastating, taking out Tate in just 2 rounds.

Again, it was just 5 months before Toney. Go and watch the fight if you haven't seen it. In my honest opinion, you simply have to choose Roy from the Tate fight if you're creating a fantasy fight at MW. If that version of Roy had've stayed at MW, he'd have dominated everything in his path and Hopkins would never have had his great run.

 

McClellan was looking equally awesome!

 

Not counting his loses