Jones v Hagler @ MW

Nobody I know of makes much of a deal over Leonard's losses to Norris and Camacho.



Ok... except for a certain redrooster.

 

Foxy 01,

I appreciate the points that you've made.

We know that Roy didn't have great fundamentals, and he did things that were too risky for other fighters to emulate because they didn't have his freakish speed and reflexes. But Roy was also very skilful. It still took an awful lot of skill to deliver the rapid fire combinations that he threw. He still had to perfect his technique, timing and accuracy. He threw 5-6 punch combinations that included uppercuts off either hand. He threw double hooks to the body, and then went upstairs. That was skill.

:good

 

Thanks. I wish we could have seen it.

But I still don't understand your logic.

If you only think that Marvin COULD POSSIBLY have stopped Ray late, then why are you absolutely convinced that he WOULD DEFINITELY have stopped Roy early?

If I look at things from Marvin's perspective, my thinking is that Roy would have been the harder guy to fight.

Again, Roy was just as fast as Ray. He was just as skilled. (but in a different way) He was just as elusive. But he wasn't a WW moving up, he was a big MW, who would have been a SMW-LHW on fight night. Not only that, he possessed the one punch power that Ray didn't have. So it doesn't make sense to me.

It's not the fact that you think Marvin would have won that I have issue with, it's the fact that you think he would have done it early with so much ease.

:good

 

He's not saying that those fights were Roy's best, he's saying that Roy was at his best during them.

 

We'll never know, but I think Roy's speed and power could gain anyone's respect.

 

I believe Marvin was at his best in '77-'78, countering with power, playing chess, airtight defense, etc.

 

That's a silly thing to say.

Would Marvin have had the same opportunity that Johnson had?

You could apply that logic to any opponent.

Do you think that Johnson hit as hard as a HW John Ruiz who weighed 230 pounds? No chance. Yet Glen knocked him out, but Ruiz was completely dominated.

At the end of the day, Roy beat better fighters than Johnson, and there's a world of difference between a 25 year old version of Roy, and the 35 year old version that was coming off of a devastating loss to Tarver.

 

You've made some great points there.

:good

 

Roy weighed in at 154 for a fight in 1991. So if we take that 22 year old version of him, he may have been able to have made a 160 same day weigh in, without killing himself.

Some of your posts are confusing.

Are you saying that Marvin would only have won at 160 because you think Roy would have been badly drained?

Or are you saying that Marvin would have beaten Roy at 160, even if Roy had've made the same day weigh in without being drained, just because you think that Marvin was a better fighter?

Or an easier question:

Let's suppose that both fighters weighed in at 160 with a same day weigh in, and both of them were healthy and they fought to their full capabilities. What do you think would have happened?

 

And would that version have beaten Ray at his best?

:good

 

who said hagler couldn't punch? doesn't he have the highest ko% amongst (unified) middleweight champions?

that's why ggg should try to unify, by the way. then he'll be the only one to beat hagler's ko% record.

 

by ko

 

Agreed. The best of Hagler beats the best of Leonard. And Leonard knew this.