Jones vs. Toney = Pacquiao vs. Mayweather?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Windigo, Apr 11, 2015.


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  1. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Another thread reminded me of this fight. People like to say that Mayweather’s style ages better than Pac’s. I don’t agree with that because anyone who has actually tried to use a cross guard and shoulder roll aka Philly Shell (for some reason) knows that it takes really quick feet. You absolutely have to keep your opponent in the pocket or they will turn you and unload on you.

    I was reminded of one fight in particular when a defensive master and master of the shoulder roll (better than Mayweather), in his absolute prime met a superior athlete with quicker feet who despite being the less skilled boxer absolutely dominated the fight. That fight was Jones vs. Toney. Watch these clips.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0_GyuDisk

    Despite being 26 and still trim Toney could not keep up with Jones feet. Jones had is way with Toney. Out flanking his defense and holding the superior punching angles all night long.

    Will history repeat itself? Can the defensive boxer match the quickness of the less skilled but quicker athlete? Or will the quick athlete outflank the defense?
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #1
  2. Stylez G.

    Stylez G. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm sure Pacquiao fans are hoping this is the case. I don't believe so. Time will tell.
     
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    #2
  3. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At least take the time to watch the video and see what happens when the style that Floyd uses meets someone quicker.
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #3
  4. Jennifer Love Hewitt

    Jennifer Love Hewitt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You have explained why you think Mayweather's style doe not age well, but neglected to show why you think Pacman' style ages better.
    Unless you are trying to say that Pac and Jones are similar? That's ridiculous. Pac is a volume puncher while Jones is a low volume ambusher.
     
    Jennifer Love Hewitt, Apr 11, 2015
    Jennifer Love Hewitt, Apr 11, 2015
    #4
  5. Stylez G.

    Stylez G. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I saw the Jones vs. Toney fight live. Manny Pacqiuao is not Roy Jones and Mayweather is not Toney. First off, Toney was a smaller guy than Jones. If you're shoulder rolling a lot, you're going to be doing a lot of leaning. As such, if that type of fighter is going against a longer fighter, he can be vulnerable. That's not the case in Mayweather vs. Pacquiao. Mayweather is also nowhere near as stationary as Toney and is a more versatile defender. That's not to say Pacquiao won't win, but I wouldn't use Jones vs. Toney as the blueprint.
     
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    #5
  6. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd say that they age about the same as they are both absolutely dependent on having quick feet. At this point in time Paq's legs are aging better than Mayweather's

    Uh Jones landed 263 power shots in that fight. Not a very lower volume fight.

    What I'm comparing is what happens to Floyds style of defense when your opponent is significantly quicker than you are.
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #6
  7. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    It isn't just quick feet, they have to be educated. Paci - OW just bounces up and down then lunges in. I doubt very much if Jones ever got his feet tangled up fighting a southpaw, like Paci - OW seems to fighting some orthodox guys, particularly Marquez. The Pacturds claim that was the reason he got nailed by JMM in their last fight because the Mexican was standing on his right foot. Could you see Jones allowing a leftie to stand on his lead foot?
     
    Foxy 01, Apr 11, 2015
    Foxy 01, Apr 11, 2015
    #7
  8. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Watch the video. It wasn't the length that was the problem for Toney. It was the angles. Jones was simply too quick of foot for him. He turned him all night.
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #8
  9. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jones was hardly a ring savant.
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #9
  10. heatman

    heatman Fight Game Connoisseur Full Member

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    Roy Jones had far more boxing skill than Pacquiao

    The myth that RJJ was all athleticism and little boxing ability is BS.

    The only thing Mayweather & Toney have in common is the shoulder roll....Floyd uses his feet much more and has a higher punch variety

    In summation I dont like the comparison at all...its reaching
     
    heatman, Apr 11, 2015
    heatman, Apr 11, 2015
    #10
  11. Russian_Glass

    Russian_Glass Well-Known Member Full Member

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    :good I couldn't have said it better myself.
     
    Russian_Glass, Apr 11, 2015
    Russian_Glass, Apr 11, 2015
    #11
  12. Stylez G.

    Stylez G. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you want to believe that Mayweather and Pacquiao are carbon copies of Jones and Toney, then be my guest. I disagree, but we'll find out in a few short weeks.
     
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    #12
  13. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If we were never allowed to use ****ogous models that weren't 100% identical then nothing in the world would ever get built. The world moves on ****ogous models.
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #13
  14. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don't confuse the young undefeated Toney with the fat Toney. Toney had great feet. He didn't run as much as Mayweather. Toney was a walker. But in terms of his defensive footwork when engaged he was just as good if not better. Its not your footwork when you are 4 feet apart that matters its what happens when they are right up on you.
     
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    Windigo, Apr 11, 2015
    #14
  15. Stylez G.

    Stylez G. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think the comparisons are particularly close. It's two fights with 4 different fighters. The only real similarity is that both fights featured a fast fighter who comes at various angles and defensive counterpuncher who utilizes a shoulder roll defense. You could just as easily use Pacquiao/Marquez, Mayweather/Judah, Jones/Tarver, or Toney/Jirov as comparative fights.
     
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    Stylez G., Apr 11, 2015
    #15
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