Jones was on the Juice

See...... you`re not quite correct there. Urinalysis and blood panels test for all banned substances if you`re doing anything close to olympic style testing. EPO, narcotics, diuretics, beta 2 agonists, hgh, stimulants.......all these are not detected by the test to epitest ratio yet are banned.

The banned substances are screened for, and if present, you fail the test. The test to epitest ratios is an indicator for anabolic use, and is one of several ratios tested for to aid in identifying ped use...... not the stand alone protocol for ped screening.

So no, if you pass the test to epitest ratio....that does not mean a clean test, as there are many other compounds and ratios tested for. Some which indicate possible use through altered hormonal ratios, and some which flat out identify the substance taken.

 

If someone knows what independant commissions test for it would be educational, as I`m not 100 percent sure how independants operate. But anything resembling IOC testing screens for numerous ratios and substance metabolites. I was a massive jones fan...but i`m pretty sure the commission reported a ratio and quoted an ànabolic substance``, not specifically andro. Andro is highly unlikely to produce that ratio. It most definitely can be detected and is banned, but another substance likely caused the results of the skewed ratios. To me it`s just plain stupidity to get caught, as the tests are simple to beat if scheduled. Even random tests can be beaten if the substance used is chosen wisely. I`d be willing to bet that half or more (likely more) of all pros have used at some point or do regularly.

 

Also, they didn't say that Jones' had a ratio of 6:1, they said he had a testosterone level 6x higher than what was acceptable. Technically, depending on the state you're in anything between 1:1 and 4:1 is an acceptable level and won't bring about a failed test (I think it might even be 6:1 in Nevada).

 

Yeah, the official sources (Indiana and the IBF) have cited an anabolic steroid and a test level 6x above what is accepted.

Jones' camp have blamed nasal spray and ripped fuel.

ESPN reported andro.

 

If you`re focusing on the 6x the normal result. Ripped fuel....absolutely not. Andro, highly unlikely. A stimulant, which the original ripped fuel was, would be detected through metabolites, and andro is highly unlikely to cause serum test levels to raise to 6x normal. Even if the test booster version of ripped fuel was used, those products are designed to naturally boost test levels in males....to the high normal range, or very slightly above, they cannot produce true anabolic like effects. With only an anabolic steroid cited, that leaves the door open for speculation, which logic dictates it was a true PED, not these over the counter products.

 

first off, this was not olympic style testing. no blood testing was done. i've already posted the other andro drug test failures. andro can alter testosterone levels above a 6:1 ratio so i don't know why you are arguing that point. there are sources online that state this. i'm not sure who did this independent test. indiana has no drug testing laws for fighters. the testing was called for by the wba if i understand correctly. i'm not sure what 6x the limit would be for an independent lab. there's a lot of assuming going on here (on both sides of this argument) but andro is considered a true PED and an anabolic steroid. it was in over the counter supplements at that time. this is fact. so was ephedra and a lot of crap that would be considered illegal now.

the argument that jones didn't take andro, even though it's been reported by many sites and is considered an anabolic steroid, is kind of silly. jones' people never said anything about andro. if someone can prove otherwise, please do so. jones admitted to taking ripped fuel. in the end, jones has to be responsible for what goes in his body and understand what's legal and illegal. they didn't fine or strip his belts but his reputation took a hit for this and that's the ultimate punishment. with that said, putting jones in the same category as mosley is a joke. shane worked with a company, blatantly tried to cheat and was trying to beat the tests. from the info we have, it looks like jones got busted for something you could buy at the store.

 

look. ripped fule cannot cause a postitive on the test epi test ratio. it is impossible. tribulus and avena sativa and other natural testosterone boosters do not raise test levels to that of androgens. this is scientific fact. andro, while it may raise test levels.....it`s effectiveness in doing so is in debate, as just as many studies have concluded it does not, than those which have. and the one`s which say it is bunk garbage, are more credible.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/10997957

http://www.coryholly.com/articles/article.cfm?id=45

http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/11/the-performance-enhancing-effects-of-andro/

http://books.google.ca/books?id=YHZ...&q=andro effect on serum testosterone&f=false

Urinalysis alone can detect a huge gamut of peds.....the test to epi test ratio is NOT a stand alone PED test. Please understand that it is only a indicator of androgen use. To identify the actual substance, other analyses are run as part of the PED screening. How the **** do they catch clenbuterol, hgh, marijuana, diuretics etc etc etc, when NONE of these substances alter the test to epitest ratio......you`re understanding of PED screening is flawed. I`m sorry but you`re incorrect here. Banned substances are a comprehensive list, and diuretics, beta 2 agonists, hgh, peptide secretagogues, epo, narcotics etc do not affect the test to epi test ratio.

Jones may have taken andro, but it is highly highly unlikely that it resulted in a 6x normal result. That would be acheived by real steroids, not a test precursor that had minimal conversion to testosterone, and carried high rates of estrogen aromitization.

 

I`ll take actual medical case studies with control groups and verification blood testing over what espn or some steroid profile site says any day. do a general search on andro, and you get that kind of misinformed ****. read medical papers on it....and you know it`s not effective in any way. jones took real steroids. so did mcgwire, sosa, bonds. hell, i met mcgwire and sosa, and being someone who knows peds, they were not on andro. the excuse is laughable. i`m bowing out.

 

No, from ONE article on ESPN it looks as though he got busted for something you could buy in a store.

 

Juice, your posts in this thread have been really interesting to read. Thanks very much :good

 

I concur with that, i may have schooled you real badly earlier in this thread juice through superior intelligence and unsurpassable wit but your posts in this thread have been outstanding and you are indeed a real boone to this forum



As reward for you're irrefutable knowledge, you will be receiving a crate of 24 Team Elite pies in the post completely free of charge courtesy of all your friends at the Team Elite Corporation :grouphug:gunarty:blah:woot:worm:cus:ldevil

 

I respect your back track

When they admitted guilt and Jones refused to have his B sample tested at a laboratory of his choice, do you not think Roy's attourney worked out the best damage limitation scenario for Jones?

Roy's attourney only said he took ripped fuel but don't you think that would inevitably lead to the failed substance being worked out as andro?

Do you understand that the Indiana Commisson and the IBF did not have any evidence that Jones took ripped fuel?

Do you not understand that this had a carefully planned damage limitation excuse written all over it via a few leaks to the media?

I want you to tell me why kieran mulvaney would know it was andro but yet the Indiana commissioner and the IBF would have no evidence it was andro?

I want you to tell me why kieran mulvaney as a source carries more weight in your opinion than the source of the neutral, objective source of the Indiana Commissioner and the IBF.

 

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