Jones was on the Juice

he used because of a positive test. fact. if you think boxing was and is clean you`re on another planet. i`ve maintained several times there are clean fighters, with a good percentage not clean. that is also an extremely logical assumption. learn something about pro sports. get exposed to it. stop living in denial. you`re twisting everything i`ve said because, well, for whatever reasons you have.

edit.... i truly am a jones fan btw. i`m just being realistic. and no, my assumptions are in no way off target regarding ped use in boxing.

 

i`m sorry for anything that may resemble a personal attack....i`m just frustrated at this point. Bottom line, I would believe Jones took andro if the commission released a report saying he tetsted positive for andro, which is detected through androstenedione serum levels, dht levels can be an indicator, and also test to estrogen levels can be an indicator, and it`s relatively short half life also means the athlete basically needs to be on it right up close to the date of testing......but they reported a 6x normal serum testosterone level, and clinical studies on males with control groups and verification blood work has suggested is not possible using andro. That is the long and short of it........i sincerely hope some people reading actually understood the points i`m trying to make regaridng this, and took the time to read the clinical and med results to get an understanding.

 

you're going with your medical study. other studies say the opposite like i've already posted. we're going around in circles. even this article talks about contradictory andro research:
http://articles.cnn.com/2000-02-08/...levels-andro-testosterone-levels?_s=PM:HEALTH
someone is going to need to explain this to headbanger.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10359391

thats all you need to read to understand why it isn`t going to be a 6x ratio on serum testosterone while using andro.....and that is one of several actual clinical studies concluding the same, some of which have been posted.

so if it was indeed a 6x result as reported by the commission, with no substance identified beyond an anabolic steroid....it was not andro.

end thread.

 

If something that comes out of a bottle or a syringe can give you the BOXING ABILITY of a Roy Jones Jr than sign me up ! You would have to be a complete fool to think any performance enhancer can give you the ability to box better let alone box like a Roy Jones Jr .

If so there would be more fighters like him.

 

you haven`t posted one single referenced study. period. just sports writer and media articles. sorry, there is a difference. and if 34% increase is true....well that my friend will not cause a 6x the normal ratio result. the average male produce somewhere around 100ngl test a week naturally´, and a 34 percent increase isn`t gonna cause a failure unless you took the test an hour after administration of the oral andro which has a short half life....and even then that increase isn`t all that much considering regular performace ehancing dosages of true testosterone which cause failures.

lets just agree to disagree

 

bull****, some of the studies were referenced. some were just listing facts. you're reaching now.

 

i`ll take the studies referenced in the journal of america medical association over others, and there are many. and where have i reached....i`ve been consistent and responded to everything. most of which went ignored

 

yes, ripped fuel would have been taken right before they fought to get any use out of it. again i'm referring back to old posts i've already made. you've made your argument, i've made mine. like i said before, jones may have used his entire career but there's a lot of assumptions and reaching being made on this topic. i'm sure you're a good dude juice. the truth may totally come from this one day or maybe it's already out. jones will always have a cloud of doubt hanging over him because of this failed test and due to the fact that he was so ****ing good (i don't see the outrage for richard hall on these boards) but everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

just consider this scenario for a moment logically......if the test to epitest ratio was used to test jones and hall as the only ped screening test....then it cannot identify a substance taken, as it only measure hormonal ratios, and numerous anabolics affect that ratio. if you were a high profile athlete at the time and tested positive, and there was a legal supplement claiming steroid like results, don;t you think you would say it was that to save face and possibly avoid suspension.........even mcgwire admitted well after the fact that he used steroids, and andro was a cover story

 

ripped fuel cannot cause a positive test. tribulus and similar test boosters only enhance your natural test by stimulatiing hormonal release.....it isn`t able to acheive anabolic like levels, just high normal levels in healthy males. it is different from andro. it actually works as advertised but is in no way anabolic

 

not quite the end until you summarize the 4 published comments on this article in JAMA. Give us a concise and balanced precis.

 

again, reaching. this could have been exactly what happened or not. the people that feel it wasn't andro have already made this point.

 

The 4 comments.....only one i quickly read shows a test increase which is 12 percent over the course of a month. highly highly unlikely to produce a 6 x result. The article kmac referenced claimed 34 percent....again, considering regular performance enhancing dosages of real testosterone range anywhere from 5 times to 10 times your bodies normal production.....it remains highly unlikely that andro would cause the reported ratio.

 

it`s not reaching man. with test epitest ratio unable to identify a substance taken, and andro shown not to increase, or minimally increase serum test ratios....it is a highly probable scenario.