I'd say it's pretty early to begin the legitimate debate, but definitely top-twenty, IMO. He had a stellar career, because of his technique, endurance, and granite chin. His bodypunching was ridiculous, and he had quite a punch. It doesn't hurt him that he had one of the greatest (probably the greatest, let's be honest) fights of all time with the late, great Diego Corrales. The rematch, in comparison, held little significance despite the KO reel finish. But with victories over the likes of Stevie Johnston, Juan Lazcano, Diego Corrales, Joel Casamayor and Jullio Diazz, I think he'll probably be ranked in the top-twenty, IMO.
He definitely should deserve a mention among the best of all-time. I think he is somewhere between 11-20 all-time. Time will tell, but he competed in a fairly deep era, defeated all the best available fighters and was a two time lightweight champion. Fought in possibly the greatest fight in the history of lightweight(reminded me of Beau Jack versus Bob Montgomery). Wins over champions Corrales, Johnston, Bazan, Paez, Casamayor,Julio Diaz and top contender Juan Lazcano. Only fighter ever to give Floyd Mayweather a stern challenge. Off the top of my head this is where he falls 1)Pernell Whitaker 2)Benny Leonard 3) Roberto Duran 4)Joe Gans 5)Tony Canzoneri 6)Ike Williams 7)Jack Welsh 8)Sammy Mandell 9)Battling Nelson 10)Julo Cesar Chavez 11)Joe Brown 12)Jose Luis Castillo 13)Ismael Laguna 14)Beau Jack 15)Bob Montgomery
Based on dominance at the weight, resume and h2h ability with other lightweights, I think Castillo belongs somewhere in the 40-50 range. 1. Roberto Duran 2. Benny Leonard 3. Henry Armstrong 4. Joe Gans 5. Pernell Whitaker 6. Barney Ross 7. Julio Cesar Chavez 8. Ike Williams 9. Tony Canzoneri 10. Carlos Ortiz 11. Alexis Arguello 12. Lou Ambers 13. Lew Tendler 14. Sammy Angott 15. Bob Montgomery 16. Beau Jack 17. Ken Buchanan 18. Esteban DeJesus 19. Freddie Welsh 20. Jack Blackburn 21. Dave Holly 22. Jack McAuliffe 23. Sammy Mandell 24. Willie Ritchie 25. George Lavinge 26. Ismael Laguna 27. Jimmy Carter 28. Battling Nelson 29. Oscar De la Hoya 30. Shane Mosley 31. Joe Brown 32. Billy Petrolle 33. Willie Joyce 34. Wes Ramey 35. Lew Jenkins 36. Ad Wolgast 37. Floyd Mayweather 38. Hector Camacho 39. Mando Ramos 40. Ray Mancini 41. Stevie Johnston 42. Jimmy Britt 43. Rocky Kansas 44. Jose Luis Ramirez 45. Edwin Rosario 46. Jim Watt 47. Rodolfo 'El Gato' Gonzalez 48. Jose Luis Castillo I probably should give the likes of Loi, Napoles, McFarland, Griffo, Dundee and maybe even Locche and Pryor a lightweight ranking, but I haven't. I haven't added quite a few lightweights of note, like Freddie Pendleton, Diego Corrales, Greg Haugen, Livingstone Bramble, Kenny Lane, Carlos Hernandez (Marocho, not El Famoso), Guts Ishimatsu, Edwin Viruet, Ray Lampkin, Ruben Navarro, Carlos Teo Cruz etc, so dont think I'm selling Castillo short.
nope didnt unify, never faced the other titlist so it hurts his all-time placement. While he was champion guys like Stevie Johnston were never fought. He was dominant and impressed ever time out but wins over Molina, Leija, and others arent as impressive as the aforementioned fighters.
Could you please explain how chavez ranks higher than Ortiz when its based on resume and dominance at lightweight. Ortiz's lightweight resume is far superior to that of Whitaker's.
Shouldn't you include performance at higher weights too? Odd inconsistant list with a bias towards fighters from the past but a good effort to include everyone none the less
Firstly I said it's based on dominance, resume AND head to head ability. I think Chavez beats quite a few more lightweights (Ortiz included) than Ortiz does. I thought Chavez put on the performance of his career at lightweight against Rosario. I thought he outboxed Ramirez handily. Ortiz beat a lot of good fighters at the weight, lost to a few as well. Does that make him more dominant? Well it depends. When it comes to resume, obviously Ortiz has Chavez beat. As for Ortiz's resume being far superior to Whitaker's I agree it is. Was he more domainant? No. Would he beat more lightweights than Whitaker would? No.
That's totally hypothetical, its your opinion as to who would be more dominant. I think its quite clear who accomplished more at the weight.
Only if you want me to put Castillo somewhere in the 50-60 range. If by bias you mean actually taking account of fighters I haven't seen much of rather than outright dismissing them and pretending they never existed, sure, biased as hell :good
Of course it's my opinion. It's my list. If I was asked to do a list based solely on resume, even though that would still involve a fair amount of opining, obviously someone like Ortiz would be near the top of the list.
