Jose Napoles v Pernell Whitaker @ 147

Eddie Perkins, Curtis Cokes, Emile Griffith, Hedgemon Lewis, Adolph Pruitt and Clyde Gray from his welterweight reign. All slick stylists, who could also bang when they wanted to and Napoles handled them all no problem. But rather than diss Sweet Pea on this, he doesn't belong in this category and the comparison is all wrong. Whitaker, despite holding a strap, was never a welterweight. He was an all-time great lightweight who moved up and feasted on blown up lightweights and jr. welters. The only real welters he fought were DeLaHoya, Trinidad, Gary Jacobs and Wilfredo Rivera. Oscar and Felix beat him, he s****ed by Rivera in their two matches and outclassed Jacobs. That's it. If you want to count Vasquez, you can. I won't count Pestraev because he was coked out by then. I'm trying to give him every benefit of the doubt here because his body of work at 147 isn't even a blip on the radar compared to Jose Napoles who put it on the line against the bangers and the slicksters and handled them all. Again, Whitaker was no welterweight, but then again, I don't consider Griffith or Basilio true middles either. Like Whitaker, their phusical framework was best served at their lighter poundage. They all moved up for the money, but I will always remember those 3 where their talents really shined and didn't have to s****e by.

 

Wut??? None of those guys.. Not one, were as good as pea, nor did they fight anything like Pea. Emile was the best of the lot and he fought nothing like Pea. The simple reality is this.... Whitaker was simply better, and that trumps not fighting as much as would've liked him 2 at WW. he fought who he needed to fight while still on the decline. BTW, a prime ODH didn't even beat him

 

The truth hurts, Jose would've beaten Pernerll.

 

Fighting who you want to fight is simply cherry-picking and has nothing to do with being a great champion. You can't say that about Pea at lightweight because he fought everyone. But at 147, where this question takes place, he fought very small or ordinary opposition. Of course he would, because he was no welterweight. He didn't have the height, reach or frame to take on the kind of opposition Napoles fought. Decked by blown up jr. welter McGiirt. Decked twice by jr. welter Hurtado. Decked by Rivera who will never be banging on the door of Canastota unless he has a ticket to get in. And for the record, I always thought DeLaHoya beat him.

 

For the record I've always thought Whitaker won that fight. Even with the BS cut ruling.

Point is, he didn't cherry pick at WW.. Do the people you listed look like cherry picking to you? McGirt.. Hoya.. Trindad.. it's the definition of not cherry picking actually. The fact is, you listed guys who fought nothing like Pea nor were they as good as Pea. So, I'm not sure why they were listed as being similar to him. You're listing fights in which Pea got knocked down.. should I list how Napoles lost more and was KO'd convincingly vastly more times than Pea was (being none)?

 

I can't tell if you're being obtuse or ignorant.

 

Two of my all time favorite fighters...and two greats.
I think Whitaker's speed and unorthadox style gives Napoles trouble for a stretch. Pea's right jab and circling footwork would dictate pace and distance for awhile... Napoles IMO was excellent at timing an opponent's movement...it was as if he knew the exact point where the opponent would be at times, and he was able to punch in between an opponent's combinations.

Whitaker wasn't a great welter, but IMO he was an ATG fighter...but not enough to beat Mantequilla at welterweight. With that said, the Whitaker that beat McGirt twice would have done well against most of Napoles' opponents I believe...

Napoles clear decision though over Whitaker.

 

The point is, he did cherry-pick at welterweight. Let me try to explain and see if you can keep up here. All those lightweights and jr. welterweights he fought at the 147 limit (apart from the one-armed McGirt and soft-punching Rivera) didn't hold a rating. Did you know that? Now, here are the rated fighters - all solid welters - that Whitaker's people avoided. Crisanto Espana, Oba Carr, Jose Luis Lopez, Yori Boy Campas, Ike Quartey, Vince Phillips and Derrell Coley. Tell me again that he didn't cherry-pick. Also, the fighters I named that Napoles fought were the slick ones as opposed to the bruisers he fought like Lopez and Muniz. I was trying to make a point that he could handle slick ones no problem until you went off on me. Of course no one is going to fight exactly like another. That's what makes each fighter unique. But you can differentiate between slick and banger.

 

I wouldn't call Oba Carr or Vince Phillips any more solid physically at Welter than someone like McGirt was.They were both smaller and quite physically weak at the weight.

I don't think size would be an issue per se here.Napoles and Whitaker were small at the weight, it would be that Napoles retained greater sharpness for a period than Pea did when he moved up.Both lost a step physically quite quickly at the weight...but Napoles went from great(circa cokes, pruitt etc) to excellent\very good, with the odd bad performance(second half of his reign)......whereas Pea went from excellent\borderline great(McGirt, Chavez) to a coked out beatable fighter with more bad performances than good ones quite quickly.Albeit he was able to roll back some of the years in a COnteh vs Saad-esque performance against DLH.

I think the difference in power between the two was key in how the fared at Welter, as well as Whitaker's greater decline in dedication.

Best vs best i favour Napoles in a good competitive fight.Best Pea could beat later reign Napoles though.Post McGirt 2 Pea likely gets beaten widely by most versions of Jose other than the worst(Muniz fights etc)

 

You use the term Cherrypicking when people either don't fight people they should or fight people they know they can beat or are on the decline. When you say someone is cherrypicking and then list Trindad... Hoya... McGirt and even Rivera, it pretty damn comical. Those aren't easy fights and better fighters than anybody you listed him avoiding. Trust me, it's not hard keeping up with tom foolery like this.

He never showed he could handle someone like pea or someone as good as Pea. It's really that simple.

 

Not sure McGirt was better than Quartey or Espana at Welter.I don't think Pea can be criticised for fighting him though.He was one of the best fighters at the weight.

Chavez was a big money superfight, can't criticise that even though i'm not the biggest supporter of Julio by this stage in his career.

Rivera was average.

 

Simple? Redundant you mean. McGirt was an overblown jr. welter just like I've been saying all along. And a one-handed one at that, having injured his shoulder I believe in the Genero Leon fight. He was never the same after that with multiple surgeries. As for Trinidad, he did not defend his title against Trinidad. Trinidad defended his title against him. I'll give you DeLaHoya. This is the only time in defense of the title I saw Whitaker's camp show some nerve. But of course, that was for his biggest purse at 6 million. And please, don't even talk to me about Wilfredo Rivera. You know what Rivera would be in Napoles' day? A sparring partner. So there is only two decent welters that I will say were full-fledged talented welters that Whitaker fought. DeLaHoya and Trinidad. And both beat Whitaker.

 

Did you forget to mention that Whitaker was past his best against Hoya and totally coke'd out against Felix. Yet, still in my view (and many others) still beat a prime Hoya and a big Hoya. Hoya was a strong solid WW, in fact, he would be bigger than Napoles come fight night. The Felix fight was when he was much more on the decline by then. The point is, you can hardly call somebody a cherrypicker and in the same breathe list Hoya, Felix and McGirt as who he fought. Understand ? Also, I'm not sure why you don't think McGirt was a good fighter. He was a very good fighter and a tough one. Hardly an easy day at the office.

 

Dude, I don't think you're even reading my posts. Buddy McGirt was an excellent jr. welter who moved up, tore up his shoulder and lost to Pernell Whitaker. Beating a one-armed jr. welter isn't impressive. This whole thread was about Napoles against Whitaker and my point of contention is that Whitaker is an all-time great lightweight, but not a great welter. He didn't have the frame and he only fought 2 rated full-fledged welters and they both beat him. Let's just agree to disagree. I think Napoles would beat him and you think Whitaker would win.

 

You do know that the Napoles Perkins bout was considered a bad decision right and that the first Lewis bout Napoles struggled.
Pea outboxes Napoles easily-Ive just never seen anything so outstanding about Napoles that everyone always raves about.