Jose Napoles vs..?

So you’re basing your views on him over a fight against an ATG Middle (Napoles was a small Welter, naturally a Lightweight) and one close fight against a quality opponent that he beat up and knocked out in the rematch?

That first Lewis fight was something of an anomaly. That’s when Napoles’ alcohol dependence really started interfering with his training. His stamina wasn’t up to standard as a result. So he tried to take it to him and end the fight before that became an issue. That strategy didn’t work out and his depleted gas tank allowed his opponent back into the fight.

Credit to Lewis, though. An excellent title fight effort that’s still fairly unheralded.

 

Leonard cameback after a lay off and beat an elite Middleweight.

What about the Clyde Gray fight? Or the Backus fight? Was drinking a fault as well?

Leonard did drugs but nobody ever uses that as an excuse for his losses do they?
Duran. Hearns. Benitez. All three in their prime and were beaten by Leonard. 2 were unbeaten.
You cant name me three welters Napoles met and beat like that.

 

Who rates Napoles above Leonard? Why is Leonard the focal point of almost your entire post? We’re talking about Napoles.

What losses did I excuse for Napoles?

What about the Gray fight? Another quality opponent that an aging Napoles beat clearly in a competitive bout.

Backus opened up a cut at the beginning of the fight and the bout was stopped early as a result. In the rematch Napoles returned the favor emphatically. Not really sure how you can hold that kind of fluke result against him.

 

Right hes aging in the Gray fight yet the Lewis rematch is considered a great performance a year latter.
Leonard was used as an example. Because Leonard gets alot of flak on here.
Truth of the matter is Napoles reign as Welterweight champ was anything special.
Great boxer who I feel peaked BEFORE he was a welter.
Sure I'd love to see him vs a Leomard,Hearns,Robinson but in my opinion hes a smidge below them.

 

Unmm, yeah. What’s the point supposed to be here? Think about it before doing yourself a disservice.

I agree that he peaked before Welter. Shouldn’t it then be more impressive that he was able to reign the way he did at a weight class where he was consistently undersized?

I don’t think anyone familiar with him would pick him over the guys you mentioned head to head at Welterweight. You act as if he’s regarded as belonging to a higher class than them. That’s just not true. Maybe you preemptively overrated him in your own mind before watching his fights. You certainly don’t give any quarter when dissecting the fights of his you’ve watched, regardless of age or circumstances.

Maybe look at the date of the match and have a look at the opponent before diving in expecting Roy Jones/Pazienza levels of dominance. Might help to lighten up your standards a bit.

 

So where would you rank him st welter?
Outside the top ten?

 

Nope. Pretty clearly inside. Utterly dominated a fine champ in Curtis Cokes to take the title, replicated the feat in their rematch, outclassed another ATG Welter in Emile Griffith (albeit a weakened version), and reigned supreme at the weight for 6 years. He didn’t face the class of opponent Leonard faced, but he beat plenty of fine fighters and did so comprehensively and impressively up until the end.

 

See I like Cokes but would you rate him an alltime great?
Griffith was coming down in weight and wasn't close to his prime.
Other then those two who would you rate as truly world class challengers he beat?
And lets not remember he had a loss to Backus in there- fluke or no fluke.

 

Hedgemon Lewis and Ernie Lopez were absolutely world class.

 

Cokes wasn’t a certified “ATG”, but I’d call him a great fighter. Yeah, no doubt. The man stopped a prime Luis Rodriguez and won 2/3 against him overall. He was perhaps on the decline a bit when Mantequilla first moved up to challenge him, but he wasn’t washed up or anything like that. Still very formidable. Napoles rendered him useless. Flaccid.

I don’t even think he was truly prime for most of his reign at Welter. The difference between the Napoles that ripped the title from Cokes and the version of just a couple years later is marked. Massive difference from the Napoles who fought below Welter. It was sheer class that allowed him to stay on top for several years afterwards.

 

Primo Carnera.

 

Napoles L UD Whitaker (135)
Napoles W UD Williams (135)
Napoles L UD Duran (135)

Napoles W UD Gavilan (147)
Napoles W TKO Curry (147)
Napoles vs. Burley (147) Hard to tell. Controversial, non-event SD, perhaps.

Napoles W KO Manny Pacquiao (140)
Napoles W UD Barney Ross (140)
Napoles W UD Aaron Pryor (140)

 

Oh dear, of all the words you could have usued to put your case in why Ross beats Napoles ( and you are entitled to use what ever you want) class is prob, no defo not the one, class, Napoles oozed it, it was his whole being, the word ran through his veins, tell you what he invented the word, no mate Ross may have beaten Jose ( not for me ) but please take back the line " outclasses him " its making me feel unwell. keep safe.