Jose Napoles

That's one scenario; Basilio could beat Napoles that way, but I don't think he could apply that strategy.

Basilio was a hard fighter and would battle to his own death, but he wasn't unrelenting - he was one of the strongest welterweights and battered everybody on the inside, but he wasn't the same kind of fighter as Henry Armstrong. Armstrong, now there's a fighter who, if a bit bigger, could beat Napoles using the tactics you mentioned.

Basilio could never be discouraged but he could be deterred; he actually boxed a fair bit (and with success at times) out of choice but sometimes he was forced to if his opponent was especially tenacious. He was smarter than most give him credit for.

He wasn't as smart as Napoles though. He'd time Basilio and make him walk onto punches, setting him back on his heels. Let us not forget that Basilio himself was fairly prone to swelling and wouldn't want to pile in there against such a searing puncher.

If Basilio did get inside, I still don't think it would be his fight by a long margin. Though better as a light welterweight, Napoles had his own low centre of gravity and squat physique, and his talents lie not just in smooth counter punching; he was adept on the inside and a solid body puncher. Basilio would not find it easy to push this man back.

I think the fight would sway; Napoles takes the early portion, Basilio the middle, Napoles the nine to thirteen third, and Basilio the last couple of rounds as he tries to salvage a victory, in vain however, because of Napoles' close but clear lead from earlier.

 

Carmen was indeed a bleeder but unlike Jose he was never stopped on cuts, and I think Jose`s skin around his eyes was even more tender then Carmen`s.

 

Napoles, like in his fight with Griffith, would have refused to get sucked into a knucle-dragging slugging match with Basilio, and would have neatly outboxed him. He had the punch to keep Carmine off of him and get his respect, and would have inflicted damage with those precise, accurate shots to swell up Basilio badly, in my opinion. I don't think he'd ko the tough Basilio, but a knockdown would not be out of the question. He would beat Carmine not as easily as he beat the nephew (Backus) but by unanimous 15 round decision.

 

It was said that if God was to come down and create the 'perfect fighter' you would get Ray Robinson, perhaps, but if God erased Napoles' bizarre, almost curse-like susceptibility to cuts then Ted Spoon would chose the latter.

With Napoles it was not about what he had, that being a whole lot, it was what he did with it. Jose mapped out situations like no other; observing the dangers with a brilliant observation.

Economic like Joe Louis, with a greater perception of incoming missiles, and dare Ted Spoon says it, wider array of punches - Napoles was thee combination machine.

When you watch Napoles you will find yourself thinking, "Yep, that was the best punch to throw then, yep good move there, ooo, never seen that before." Napoles was a fighter of an equally superb conserved and explosive nature. He could blast you, smooth you over, outmanoeuvre you at every turn and threw his punches in a way that seemingly gave his gloves serrated edges.

Napoles' main flaw was that bobbing, but available forehead sticking above his gloves as he shuffled forward and got in the mix.

'Mantequilla' was smooth, but could be hit to his skins misfortune. Napoles had no problem with 'throwing down' and going for it, but sometimes to his own disadvantage - that was Napoles though, as has been said, he did not let you get one up on him - he had the power to right most, if not all scenarios.

Forced above his true 'dominant' weight for political and locative reasons, Ted Spoon says 'dominant', but Napoles is always going to be referred to as one of the more dominant Welterweight champs while possibly being two weights above his best.

Duran achieved unique greatness in beating Leonard at Welterweight, but Napoles maintained champion status against a handy lot of contenders, while fighting age and drinking problems. Napoles should not have been as consistent, but such was his substance as a fighter that he turned away the challenges.

 

All fair points Manassa and I agree with most of them. But I still think Carmen`s indomitable will to win would shine through here and see him win either a close points decision or a late stoppage on cuts. Sure, Jose will hit him and hurt him plenty, but Carmen will be hitting him right back and making him work all three minutes of every round unlike anything Jose has had to face before.

Carmen had trouble with movers, but Jose wasn`t one of them and his more flatfooted style would suit Carmen who wouldn`t have to chase him. Jose was adept on the inside as you say, but Carmen was moreso and was clearly the stronger man too and he would have been the boss in close when it came to a physical type of fight.

Napoles will time him on the way in and hurt him with his counters, but Basilio will pay the price and get inside on him because if he stays at mid-range he will get beaten to a pulp by the Cuban. So again, while it is entirely possible that Jose wins this fight the way you described, it is also possible that he loses to Carmen the way I described it.

The one thing I know for sure is that this would have been a helluva fight and a competitive one, other than that I cannot predict a definite winner other than to say that I feel Carmen would have edged Jose wih both men at their best. Basilio to me wasn`t supposed to beat the bigger, stronger, infinately more-talented Sugar Ray, yet he went on to do just that in their first fight and it is that determined, fearless and relentless version of Basilio that I picture in my mind`s eye defeating Jose.

 

Terrific post (and thread). Napoles is perhaps the single most underappreciated Welterweight great ever, certainly nowadays he doesn't quite get the widespread credit he deserves in some circles.

I have him #4 all-time at WW. :good

 

Basilio would have smashed the version of Griffith that Napoles dominated.You can't compare the two at all.

I'd pick the majority of the other contenders Napoles beat over that drained version of Emile.Considered what Emile brought to the table that night it was one of Jose's lesser wins imo.

 

What about the Griffith from the Paret fight? That's a different version.
It gets tricky from there (for me anyway) trying to place Gavilan, Napoles, Rodriguez, and Griffith...:think

 

This is definitely an outcome I see as possible, but not likely. 2-1 odds in favour of Napoles, I'd say. What is more certain is that Napoles would win the rematch if he lost the first.

On Napoles-Griffith - I agree with Mantequilla that it wasn't the prime Griffith in there, far from it. The one from the Paret fights might have been the man to box Napoles in and then edge him out.

And it's always hard picking a winner when Luis Rodriguez is involved because he has the ability to upset even the best. It might just happen that he leads a fight against Napoles closely before being caught.