Joshua Vs Dubois

You're missing the point, that is all he's beaten. Every single name he's beaten. That's his resume. It is what it is.

They aren't excuses, they're reasons I gave before the fight as to why I felt Dubois would knock him out.

You said he had 6 undeserved title fights including this one, so you need to provide the other 5 undeserved. You've listed two there that were contractually obliged. Two fights that were both defences agreed on the proviso AJ could have a rematch if he lost.

I want to know the other 5 titles fights he didn't deserve.

 

If thats why you thought Dubois would knock him out cool. Plenty of others around the web beforehand said Dubois would knock him out because he's overrated. I agree with their reasoning more than I do yours considering I never rated his record as highly as you do and he's lost to 2 underdogs already.

IMO he didn't deserve them, he got dominated in all instances, he's the one who activated the clause, and other fighters should've gotten a chance at the titles afterwards. I don't think Lewis deserved a rematch against Rahman and it still happened. Even if you disagree about the other 2 title fights aj definitely didn't deserve the Dubois fight, Parker and Kabayel had a better run and Dubois ended up KOing him anyway

 

"He's one of 3 best heavyweights of this era."

How would you define "this era"?

"Joshua got smoked by a live underdog, because he actually decided to fight one."

Fury's been the underdog on four occasions to Joshua's one, about to be five to Joshua's one when Fury rematches Usyk and Joshua ducks Dubois.

"For now, AJ lost to 2 guys, who Fury didn't even fight"

Joshua failed to fight either of his two biggest rivals and still has four losses. Fury can't force fat Andy into the ring with him.

"Just like you saying he WOULD clear AJ's resume"

He cleared a better version of AJ's best win, in hostile territory, without much difficulty.

 

You don't agree with either reasoning, you predicted AJ would knock him out.

Usyk and Ruiz only won in the first place because AJ defended against them. He only defended because he had a rematch clause. Both agreed to that clause.

The Dubois fight was an easy cash in for Dubois, I don't blame him for taking it. AJ has a high profile and was there for the taking. Just like he is if Dubois rematches him.

Of course Kabayel and Parker are on better form than AJ. AJ has not been on good form since Usyk beat him. It's just taken you a long time to realise this.

 

You can't tell me who or do or don't agree with. What I thought before is irrelevant, because the fact is Dubois was the underdog and beat Joshua just like Ruiz and Usyk were underdogs when they beat him. This translates to him being publicly rated higher than he really was in terms of the best heavyweights.

I think he's overrated and plenty of people in the forum would agree with me that he is/was overrated. It's not complicated

 

Have to admit I really couldn't call this one beforehand as it completely depended on 'which' AJ turned up on the night.

What I do know though is that I would be shocked if AJ could come back and put in eye catching performances ever again.

IMO he looked like he was suffering from some kind of psychological problems (I hope he wasn't obviously) with showing Dubois to his stool and sticking his tongue out and all that bizarre behaviour, he even looked a bit 'odd' when the ref brought them together to touch gloves. Maybe the stress of just being AJ and the expectations of the fans has finally got too much for him.

That's not an excuse for the loss, DD did what he had to do and did it well.

 

Usyk was always going to beat AJ, surely you didn't fall for the hype then as well?

Ruiz was a shock but that's it, and he avenged that one.

But like I said, he did what he did and he beat who he beat.

A fighter isn't over rated because he loses a fight people thought he'd win. A fighter is over rated if he never achieves what people thought he would.

AJ had two limiting factors stopping him achieving any more success than he did. Fury and Usyk. AJ unified 3 belts and was considered the best in the world for a short while. To achieve any more than that he needed to do something he never could. So I think he was rated right by me.

Your level of over/underrating will be somewhere on the scale.

I'm glad you concede he did not have 5 undeserved title shots.

 

Then by your definition aj is overrated because he never achieved what people thought he would. The actual definition of overrated is in a dictionary. A fighter being rated higher than what they really were can be considered overrated.

Correct, he could've achieved more if he was as good has the consensus of the boxing fans made him out to be. But he wasn't, so he couldn't achieve a win over Dubois. He got dominated and knocked out

 

I never thought he'd get past Usyk, let alone Fury. Even if he'd have fought Wilder before Ruiz and unified all 4 belts, he would still always have lost to Usyk. He was never going to be able to define his era since there were better heavyweights. His legacy is one of the top 3 between Wlad and Usyk. If you think he was better than that you're over rating him, sorry to say to you bud.

He was never going to beat Dubois for the reasons I've already stated. Which is exactly why Chisora and Wardley would both knock him out.

 

I think there is a bit of over hyping of AJ by us Brits, but there's also I think a reason for that.

The 2012 olympics was a huge success for this country, and at a point where we were a bit down on ourselves and our place in the world, after pretty much everybody believing the whole thing would be a disaster and show us up, it actually showed Britain off to the world in a fantastic way through the opening ceremony (I believe the best there's ever been) and was then followed by incredible days of British performances and gold medals and brought the country together in a way that hadn't been seen since we won the football world cup in 1966. Ultimately it is so far, the highlight of this century for our country.

AJ was of course caught up in all this and became the poster boy for HW boxing in this country (and boxing full stop really).

So AJ is not only having a career of his own but also embodies the feeling of 2012 for many of us.

It's easy to forget now after all that's happened what a prospect he was, incredible knockouts and a feeling he really would be everything we hoped for.

Yes, he was always too stiff, but he had time to develop out of that and there's no reason at the time not to think he would do so.

Obviously with hind sight he never really did improve once he reached a certain point and that's just how it is.

However, I think even after the Andy Ruiz loss (and even the rematch) it became apparent to a lot of UK boxing fans that things were not going to end up quite the way we had hoped.

Now you are left with a hardcore group of AJ fans, who still believe he can turn this around and start knocking everyone out again, but also outside that hardcore group you have people who subconciously still link him to those good times in 2012 and the couple of years after.

I think the DD loss was probably the point where the last of that hope has disappeared (it probably should have been after the 2 Ruiz fights in all honesty) but was being given a last chance due to the emphatic knockout of Ngannou, not because of who the opoonent was but more to do with 'how' he dispatched him and the fact that he had pretty much saved the face of boxing.

Truth is, some people over rate him (usually Brits) and some people under rate him. He's somewhere in the middle of course.

 

Load of rubbish.

Whyte... inexperienced, out of shape, coming off a drugs ban, blew his shoulder out after he had Joshua do a funny dance.

Martin, Molina, Breazeale, Takam... all joke opponents, the first two of which came to lie down.

Klitschko, coming off the couch he had been on for eighteen months, coming off a loss, almost two feet into retirement, had already been KO'd three times in brutal fashion, boxing at Wembley where it was all set up for him to lose.... hailed as an incredible win.

Parker... didn't throw a punch. Lost to Whyte and a much better version who actually came to box was obliterated by Joe Joyce.

Povetkin.... ancient and was never a world champion, hailed as some sort of legend of the heavyweight game.

Ruiz... the most embarrassing loss in history. And the cherry on top of the manufactured cake is this "two-time" nonsense, as if it's better than not having lost. Public swindled.

Pulev.... another ancient plodder who was crap six years prior against Klitschko.

Usyk.... schooled by him twice. Hardly competitive.

Franklin.... had just gone to war with a shot Whyte and non-puncher.

Helenius.... had been knocked out in a round or two by Wilder and had said he was retired, to then fight some bum in a castle a few months later, only about two weeks prior to facing Joshua. A guy who had been KO'd by Duhaupas.

Wallin.... absolutely crapped himself and didn't throw a punch.

Ngannou.... an old MMA guy.

Dubois.... 'best version' of Joshua (probably was) destroyed in every way possible, only won five seconds of any round across the entire bout.

Never a world class boxer.

You're welcome.

 

Post Klitschko-era, so from 2015 til now.

He was, but you're missing the point.

Not his fault. Wilder ducked him and admitted it. AJ also signed the contract to fight Fury in 2021, but Fury had to fight Wilder for the third time.

Yup, he did. But the rest of the common opponents AJ beat in better style, except for Whyte, but they fought different version of him, being different versions of themselves as well.

 

He clrearly doesn't as he lost to Usyk. Like I said, wouldas don't exist. People said he would beat Usyk too. He didnt.

AJ was the best heavyweight in the world from April 2017 to June 2019. And again, all these wouldas, lol. Can't stay in the facts realm, can you?

Dubois has the second best recent resume in the recent years at heavyweight. Smashed AJ, yes. But again, Fury didn't fight him. So can't hold that L as an argument in the Fury comparison.

 

Now he apparently has the best resume after beating the crap out of aj. He didn't have a good resume before the fight so the point still stands. The fact is Fury is fighting the best heavyweight on the planet right now, i could care less what Dubois has done. Usyk himself said Fury was the harder fight

Furys ending Klitschkos reign when he still had the belts is better than anything aj has ever done

 

Dubois had the Top 15 win in Miller and Top 10 win in Hrgovic before AJ. As AJ was rated number 3 in the world at the time of their fight, of course Dubois' resume was boosted. It's the second best recently after Usyk of course.

Fury is fighting the best heavyweight on the planet, yes. AJ's been there, done that, twice. Fury's win over Klitschko is the best out of all of their wins, but has a stain of ducking the rematch. AJ had to finish what Fury started.