Joshua vs First Knock Downs Of Ten ATG's

My point is that it can be done.

 

I think Joshua has a decent/average chin.. but far from a granite one. As far as past fighters, I’d put it in the class of Bruno or prime Rahman. I’m more than certain we’ll see him hit the deck a few more times in his career. And it he steps in with guys like Sirenko or Hrgovic in 2-3 years.. it will probably be for a 10 count.

 

Sirenko isn't beating Joshua.

 

Give Kovalev, Beterbiev, or Stevenson a clean free hit on any HW and they'll definitely be hurt. The weaker-chinned ones even dropped or KO'ed. Weight is important but having 30% more weight isn't enough to stop one getting hurt by a huge puncher on a free hit unless one has an iron chin.

Of course in a real fight probably the bigger guy uses height and reach to KO the smaller guy first (since he doesn't need to land necessarily as clean a punch) and also doesn't let himself be hit clean easily.

 

I don't think that knockdown shows a poor chin. If we're just going on that knockdown alone that was a straight right hand flush on the chin. That's a very difficult punch to take.

We need to stop saying that anybody who goes down from a punch landed has a bad chin, especially in the HW division. Generally speaking if a guy like Wlad lands on your chin clean you go down. There's not a whole room to get around that. That's just how it's going to go down.

 

imo they are not denting a fully fledged super heavy, feel it yes, hurt dropped or ko'd no chance. Bob Foster was a heavier puncher than all 3 you mentioned and his power was not felt by fighters that weighed 2 stone heavier than him let a lone the 5-6 stone advantage fighters around now have over natural 175 lb'ers. Show me an example ?? The only issue they have with the little guys is getting to grips with their quicker movement, catching them so to speak

 

First of all, my post was about having a free hit. That lets the little guy wind up, possibly even take a step or two, and deliver maximum force at the perfect angle. In a real fight that's very unlikely to happen, coupled with the fact that mismatches aren't usually sanctioned. Nevertheless there is some evidence, from weakest to better:

- If you look on YouTube you'll see many a tiny man KO a giant.

- Punch machines aren't that accurate, but they consistently suggest that guys weighing 180-190 can have similar power to of a normal SHW who's not a huge puncher.

- Add to that the evidence that many a cruiser has KD'ed huge guys like Joshua in sparring. If you talk to the guys at most boxing gyms they'll tell you that a big punching LHW can KO/KD just about anyone.

In actual sanctioned fights usually the weights are closer so it's hard to have much evidence, but consider:

- 212 lb Briedis KO cold 245 lb Charr. Charr is supposed to have a great chin, and most here think Gassiev has more power than Briedis even at cruiser. Is it unreasonable to think that a 190 lb version of Briedis still gets at least a KD against a weaker-chinned SHW than Charr?

- 218 lb Haye rocked 316 lb Valuev despite a huge size difference. To me, clearly he could've got the KD if allowed to deliver a clean hit.

- And, forgive me, 220-odd lb Wilder KO'ed a 400-odd lb Nichols.

 

Actually Nichols retired on his stool I believe...

 

You've crept away from 175 to fighters that are in the 200's plus..I'm still waiting where theres 175lb fighters that are knocking down/hurting super heavies, just one example will do me. The free shot has already been covered, its not reality. The goal posts have moved quite blatantly. I know cruisers can do it as they have nearly 2 stone on light heavies. Wilder is a blatant heavy, 45lb's heavier than a fighter I'm on about

 

There are basically no pro examples of top 175 lb guys even fighting superheavyweights in a sanctioned boxing match, so of course neither side can have good examples.

Still I thought my example of Briedis vs Charr was a good one, even if I size down Briedis to 190 (-10 %) weight surely that shot still knocks Charr down? Looking at it another way, if we reduce the force of that punch by 10 or 20% to scale Briedis down it's obvious that Charr or any weaker-chinned SHW is going down considering that Charr was actually out cold immediately.

Hard to ignore all the sparring stories en masse too.

That was only my second post on the thread, yes the discussion in this thread has digressed, but I was never talking about anything other than a free hit. It's not reality, it's only about whether such a thing is possible in theory or not. I do respect weight-classes, but I also think that free hits are horribly under-respected. People don't realize how few of the KOs in boxing are even at 70-80% of the free-hit potential of a fighter. That's why when a close-to-perfect punch connects there is the "wow" factor.

My argument is simply that a big p4p puncher LHW, given a free hit, could hurt/KD/KO a number of SHWs. You want to go one division up, thinking I underrate the effect of size, whereas I think the opposite.

Basically if cruisers can KO cold, I expect the top LHWs to at least hurt the same customers, not some abrupt jump to not being able to hurt anymore.

Neither of us have 100% conclusive evidence that can be posted here - though I would suggest that if you talk to the people in the local boxing gyms I expect most would take my view from sparring experience.

Good discussion anyway.

Well, we agree there. The Wilder part was just a joke of course, any excuse will do to bring up that fight

 

People HOPE hes packing glass because it gives them hope when praying on his downfall. 41 years old or not, WK packs a punch and i know there wouldnt be too many people who would of got up off that sweetly landed shot which shook Joshua too his core. The only thing i learnt from that knockdown is AJ is one determined SOBwith the heart of a lion. He took so many flush right hands in that fight even during the exhausted stage. Its certainly not glass thats for sure.

 

I'm gonna watch the Nichols fight later, is it worth it ????

 

Its not glass, but someone with finishing skills wouldn't of let him back in to the fight. Wlad monumentally messed up ! His heart made up for his average chin. Wlad threw the worst left hooks of his entire career that night !

 

For comedy yes ... for anything else perhaps not