Joshua vs Wilder

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Scissors, Mar 1, 2019.


  1. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Active Member Full Member

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    What i said sums it up.Confirmed the ducking stating they are unwilling to negotiate career high payday offers and chance to unifiy the divison.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  2. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Active Member Full Member

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    You also missed

    When asked if the offer Hearn made to Wilder was anywhere near what they expected, Finkel said: “Nowhere, not worth a return reply, even. I’ll tell you why I’m not talking to him at all at this moment, so you know. I’ve told this to people off the record, but I’ll say it the way it is.
     
  3. Dragon Punch

    Dragon Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ok, Eddie
     
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  4. 305th

    305th Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So what? Finkel's been in boxing longer than Hearn has been alive.

    Deliberate lowballing is one of Hearns' stock in trade techniques to kill a negotiation before it's even started. He did it with Fury a few weeks back. That as well as lying copiously before scurrying off to Twitter or IFL so his pot-bellied football shirt wearing fan club will roll with it.

    So it's OK for Hearn to play the hardball negotiator when it comes to Joshua, but all other promoters have to roll over and ask for a belly-rub?

    Friendly reminder that Joshua is a flagship MR brand and the brand building is following a long term plan. This has as its paramount objective being the retaining of the 0 on his record for losses. The end goal of said plan is obviously to keep them all in Antigua holidays and all the other trappings of copious wealth for the rest of their and their grandkids lives.

    Making good match-ups comes down on the list somewhere between the colour of the ropes on the ring and what size cups to serve beer in. Anyone who thinks that the mere passing thought of Joshua losing is entertained by MR in the interest of putting on erm you know, a decent matchup, needs their heads examined.

    Joshua's had his first and only truly risky fight, and that was with Wlad. There isn't going to be any big showdown with either of the Big Two; just more Whyte, Usyk, Hunter and any other no-threat that may emerge and gets pumped up. That takes us 2-3 years down the road at which point Fury will have retired and so will Joshua, to embark on a new career as a travelling brand ambassador, still with the precious 0.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  5. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Active Member Full Member

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    How is career high paydays low balling? It's ducking AJ considering Wikder took less money than offered to fight Fury and will take even less money in his next fight against whoever it is after turning down mutiple career high paydays from Hearn.

    Also how is an undeafted World Champion at the time in Parker and the fighter with the deepest quality of opponents after AJ himself in Povetkin not risky fights? Usyk not a threat? Really? If in your view Fury and Wilder are the only threats to AJ, what are matchroom supposed to do if Fury and Wilder have no interest in fighting and down offers so that they can fight lesser opponenets for much less money?
     
  6. Scissors

    Scissors Up the reds Full Member

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    Sounds like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to me.

    Both seem very difficult to deal with. Would be great if Wilder and Joshua went round the pair of them.
     
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  7. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia #IrrationalGarcia Full Member

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    A career high payday does not necessarily equate to a fair offer, don't be stupid.
    Parker was not a risky fight to anyone with a brain.
    Povetkin is a legit win, though he is years past his best.
    He hasn't fought Usyk.
    Fury and Wilder ARE the only legit threats to AJ, I would say.

    Regarding the deal and stuff, @Scissors is probably right. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. My gut feeling is that Wilder's size would have had the fight by now (though were not so bothered if it didn't happen) but AJ's side really didn't (not for fear of Wilder but for milking the cow before taking a riskier fight in the form of Wilder)

    What we should all be saying here, is **** these greedy promoters and **** these greedy boxers.
     
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  8. Hattonmad

    Hattonmad Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think Hearn is now making good offers but obviously the way he conducts himself is rubbing some of the Americans up the wrong way. Lets face it, Eddie Hearn doesn't mean jack sh*t Shelley Finkel who's been in the game longer than Eddie has been alive. Eddie is the new kid on the block over there. He's accomplished very little in America thus far, although I do believe he has a bright future.

    Eddie's on IFL two or three times a week, offering this, offering that, patronising blokes who have been around a long time. I understand why people may not want to work with him, he comes across disrespectful. Eddie should wind it in a little if he really wants to get the fight made.

    On the flipside, Shelley shouldn't be so sensitive. Man up, put the ego aside a d get the fight done if the money is right.

    As always, it's the promoters acting up.
     
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  9. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

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    None of them give a monkeys about the pantomime. As soon as they want to strike a deal it will happen regardless of what they've said about each other. Even if they loathe each other they'll happily fake mutual love and affection if the situation requires it.
     
  10. TonyHayers

    TonyHayers Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm surprised that you repeatedly keep talking about the supposed desperation to retain Joshua's unbeaten record as some sort of absolute must in terms of Matchroom's plan for him.

    Joshua is at a level which is genuinely comparable, in a domestic business sense, with any other boxer from the past god knows how many decades. He's selling more PPV's and fighting in front of bigger audiences than Calzaghe, Khan, Hatton, Haye, Froch, Bruno, Hamed, Eubank, Benn. The lot.

    The point that is repeatedly made to the likes of you is that when you get to that level, a loss doesn't really matter. Yes, if he fights Wilder and gets knocked out, then gets knocked out in a rematch, then beats Hammer before Fury easily outpoints him his career is going to look a lot different. But in the short term, the only thing that changes is the narrative. It's been said on here and it's true; Joshua at the moment is the guy trying to unify. If he loses it becomes the story of Joshua trying to avenge his loss.

    More fighters have their biggest fight with a loss on their record than those who go in unbeaten. Losses, even to second-tire opponents, didn't put people off watching Lewis or Tyson. Why should it suddenly make a massive difference now?
     
  11. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

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    I think the unbeaten '0' is more important in the US, where post Mayweather it's become something of a fetish. The truth is that if Joshua loses, the interest in his next fight in the UK is going to go through the roof and if he wins that one he will be more popular than ever.

    At heavyweight even the very best can expect to pick up a couple of defeats by the end of their career. Lennox Lewis was just about as good as they come and he still slipped up against Rahman and Mcall.
     
  12. TonyHayers

    TonyHayers Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Does it really apply in the US? Canelo has lost. Pacquiao had several losses before anyone had heard about him truth be told.

    I get that the argument can be presented in a 'the only way to sell him to a US audience is as undefeated' way. I'd still question that to an extent.
     
  13. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

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    Maybe not, but I suspect it applies only inasmuch as it matters more to the marketers than it does to the fans. A bit like Generals who study the last war and learn it's lessons only to find that the next one is very different. I think they're looking back at the Mayweather era and desperately trying to recreate that dynamic rather than trusting the new stars to create new compelling narratives of their own.

    Or I'm overthinking the whole business...
     
  14. TonyHayers

    TonyHayers Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Don't get me wrong. There is definitely something in the idea of seeing someone who hasn't lost lose. 'Someone's O has gotta go' and all that.

    I think Mayweather was something of a unique example. Best boxer in the world against a series of very popular opponents built him into a guy people wanted to see lose.
     
  15. Trafford

    Trafford Active Member Full Member

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    The 0 is not that important depending on who you are for Joshua he’s young enough to rebuild. Wilder on the other hand isn’t. Showtime and Haymon need to keep PPV alive so they can keep fighters happy. If Wilder does well they can point to him as their example. For Finkel he’s the retirement fund. Last fighter he represents and no intention of growing his roster. The bloke falls asleep in routine interviews. He needs to keep milking the cow for aslong as possible. Whether Hearn is unrealistic or lowballing if you want the fight you atleast open a dialogue at the minute he’s hiding. As for Wilder to be fair you only have to listen to the guy talk to realise he’s not the sharpest tool in the box. If Hearn is offering $15m for a voluntary and 60/40 for Joshua in the U.S your bonkers for not taking it. Particularly if Hearn has announced it in public if Wilder comes out now and says its 60/40 for the winner in the rematch in the U.K Hearn has to make deal. Wilder ends up with life changing paydays getting close to $75m if he believes he can beat AJ in the first fight alone.
     
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