Journeyman who were pretty good fighters

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 4, 2008
    Would guys like Holman Williams, Lytell and Burley qualify? Top fighters who still toiled without getting the big fights and picking up a fair amounts of losses along the way (against each other mostly, though).

    If they don't qualify I'm unsure if any real quality fighter will.
  2. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 19, 2016
    Only to ten.
  3. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 19, 2016
    Boxing Illustrated once did an article on the 'Opponent' as they called it; a proud fighter who had talent but not the breaks in luck; who could be relied on to turn up anywhere, at short notice, and give a solid, losing effort to a prospect or name fighter; and give that more feted opponent an opportunity to learn and get some rounds of experience. Good enough to keep a prospect honest but not good enough to pose a real threat.

    The example they gave was junior welter (ish - journeymen don't tend to have a specific weight class) John Rafuse. I just looked at his record. If you take 'journeyman' to mean what BI termed an 'opponent', John really fits the bill. Kind of fella who is the lifeblood of the sport but probably earnt a pittance and won't get much respect outside his local pub. Shame, because he deserves it. It takes a special kind of courage - I'll bet Reggie Strickland had it, too - to keep going out against good fighters and know that you're going to get a beating. And a special kind of skill to keep getting beaten by better fighters and not be walking on your elbows when you're done with boxing.

    Buck Smith, he of the 100 fights plus who chinned Kirkland Laing, came to mind for me.
  4. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jul 22, 2004
    Jose Gonzalez! Late fifties to early seventies. Grew from welter to LH. Look at his record for pete's sake! Disappointing losses; Big wins! Several big wins. Look him up!
  5. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 19, 2016
    Wow! That's no journeyman, jowcol, old chap. He was a star fighting other stars and winning nearly as many as he lost. That was a relentless record of quality opponents. Any idea what his style was ?
  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    I guess we all have our own definitions...for me I would go-
    Elite (dominate your dividion)
    Title Holder (able to get a belt or win it for a short period of time)
    Gate keeper- guys who never win a title (but generally speaking earn title shots) but are ranked top 10 who you need to beat to get a title shot
    Journey men- ranked outside of the top 10 but might slip in at 8-10 for a year or 2, but generally a top 10-20 type of fighter.

    so by my personal criteria—-not sure about great but pretty solid journeymen by my definition
    Willie Monroe
    Bobby Watts
    Sugar Ray Seales
  7. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Aug 26, 2004
    I see there were a few names I thought of were posted already but there were 2 fighters I remember from the 28th st. gym in NY- one was somewhat known because he scored a good win over Nino Benvenuti and lost the rematch but had some other good wins and was a beast in the gym - I seen him beat up 6'5 280 lb Leroy Jones - trainers had to jump in the ring to save Leroy...his name Tom" the Bomb " Bethea

    another fighter was a tough kid At"the Dart" Kettles with a rough start fighting 3-0 Eugene "Cyclone" Hart in his 1st fight but went on to fight some wars and was very competitive - I saw him lose a split decision to a 15-0-1 young Vito Antuofermo among other young fighters and scored 2 upsets over Buddy Boggs - tough kid Art Kettles
  8. Ken Ashcroft

    Ken Ashcroft Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 23, 2008
    Didn’t Journeymen used to be called Clubfighters but that seems to be died out after around the 1980s and is hardly ever used now? I guess journeyman sounds more credible and maybe less offensive.
    TBooze likes this.
  9. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 18, 2004
    Beat both Mickey Goodwin and Alex Ramos, and drew with and floored Bernard Mays. Good pick.
  10. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 24, 2004
    Chuck Wepner comes to mind.

    Definitely Augustus Burdon.
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    Idk how none of these 3 have been mentioned yet.

    Young Peter Jackson
    Soldier Bartfield
    Willie Meehan
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    I think they were several notches above journeymen myself.
  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Harold Brazier
    Buck Smith
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  14. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jul 22, 2004
    Greetings 'old chap'! :)
    But...he seemed to 'fly under the radar' his whole career!
    Video of him is limited; you can find a few on YouTube.
    My fav may be his stoppage of Hurricane.
    Put Vincente Rondon to sleep!
    From what I've seen he was a 'bore in' slugger who gave NO quarter!
    At the end of his career, as a LH, lost decisions to Ahumada, Kates, and Galindez...on the road. You are right, perhaps not a 'journeyman' per sey' but a warrior who largely has gone unnoticed!

    He beat top rated WW's, he beat top rated MW's; even at the end of his career, he lost LH decisions
  15. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Oct 22, 2006
    I think that is more than to the lack of boxing clubs having club pros fighting, than offence of the term.
    Ken Ashcroft likes this.