Joyce was always too slow

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by reckless, Sep 23, 2023.

  1. Dannymita

    Dannymita Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 21, 2019
    Pffft wouldn't have thought so a year ago .. everyone n their mum was gargling his balls...second coming of foreman!!
  2. destruction

    destruction Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    Joyce’s chin is smashed. If he fights again at a decent level, that chin isn’t going to stand up to much punishment.

    Therefore, is no longer top 10. HW’s of that age don’t come back from 2 losses back to back like that.
    fencik45 likes this.
  3. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 4, 2005
    There's always a way to overcome physical deficiencies as a boxer whether it being too small, lacking power, weak chin and yes in Joyce's case being too slow. That's the beauty of boxing, doesn't matter your size or attributes, if you can develop a style that works for you, mitigating your weaknesses and amplifying your strengths then you can succeed.

    Joyce yes was slow, but Foreman was slow too, even slower when he came back and still became a champion twice. Joyce tried to overcome his lack of speed by throwing more and outworking opponents to win rounds, luckily he had the engine for that. But that didn't prevent him from getting hit a lot and that's really was his undoing.

    Zhang was a style nightmare for him, just as big if not bigger, not just a big puncher but a big counter puncher. Counter punching can make a good puncher a great puncher, make a fighter with a good chin like Joyce and Hrgovic look fragile because counter punchers hit you when you least expect. Zhang isn't unbeatable but Joyce simply didn't have the attributes required to exploit Zhang's weaknesses while Zhang had all the attributes to exploit Joyce's.
    Loudon, BCS8 and MarkusFlorez99 like this.
  4. tee_birch

    tee_birch Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jul 6, 2014
    He is the epitome of slow. Extremely cumbersome.

    Joyce has always been slow but he has a great engine and a great chin. Zhang just too good for him.

    I am not sure why he came in heavier to paw around on the outside.
  5. Koli55

    Koli55 Active Member Full Member

    Mar 19, 2021
    His biggest mistake was chasing trinkets in the amateurs for so long. A few extra years in the pros could have done wonders.
  6. Bigcheese

    Bigcheese Active Member Full Member

    Jun 7, 2015
    I honestly feel pretty bad for Joyce. It was an ill advised rematch and I hope he has made enough money to retire because his style isn't built for a long career.
  7. TMLT87

    TMLT87 Active Member Full Member

    Feb 21, 2021
    He usually is able to make up for the lack of speed by being the bigger stronger guy and being able to shrug off his opponents offence and bully and break them down. Obviously Zhang is tall, heavy, powerful AND quicker so it was a recipe for disaster I guess. I'm not gonna be fickle and write Joe off now though, assuming his chin hasnt been totally cracked now I think theres plenty of decent opponents that he could still beat.
  8. snafu

    snafu Member Full Member

    May 19, 2022
    He spent the fight massaging Zhang's biceps. I think even makhmudov bulldozes through joyce
  9. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

    Mar 7, 2012

    You told us last year that he’d easily have beaten a prime version of Mike Tyson.
  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Joyce would have beaten Jones. Fight me :D
    Loudon likes this.
  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    Jul 21, 2009
    How many high skill 6'6'' 287lb murderous punching crafty southpaws with fast hands who can punch holes in castle walls with both hands have we ever seen? Big Bang is the first one I've seen
  12. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

    Jun 20, 2017
    Exactly, no "ATG" heavyweight has ever fought anyone like Zhang. Zhang might well beat anybody, including Fury and Wilder. He is one of the first southpaws I've seen with a right hook that is just as good as his left. I watched the YT of Zhang and Joyce and both of them looked good, they moved good, but another thing Zhang does with his southpaw stance is he parries the jab well with his lead right hand and takes the opponent's jab out of the fight. His left hand is quick and the hook usually comes behind it. Impressive, maybe the reason he had problems with Jerry Forrest is because Forrest is also a southpaw? I haven't seen the Forrest fight but if Fury fights him it will be interesting to see if Fury fights out of the southpaw stance more than usual. These guys are not just big, they are good.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2023
    Serge likes this.
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    Jul 21, 2009
    Yeah, behemoths the size of Big Bang generally are low skill and slow and cumbersome but he's very technically sound with a high skill level, good defence, knows how to set things up and set traps, has fast hands, can punch ridiculously hard with both hands, and he's a southpaw to boot.

    This is a beautiful shot and set up and it would've knocked out almost anyone. Most HWs would've been out cold on their faces from a shot like that

    287lbs is crazy heavy and it's not like he's 287lbs of fat. He's just an absolutely huge guy and when you factor in all his other attributes it makes him extremely dangerous

    He was genuinely ill against Forrest
    Pat M likes this.
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 4, 2008
    Yeah, I never felt like he would last against the big punchers of the division. Maybe win the odd fight but in the end it's just not sustainable to be so easy to hit when you have guys like Zhang, Hrogovic, Joshua, Wilder etc to compete with.

    People were making too much noise of him overwhelming Parker. A decent fighter on his day, but one of the smaller and lighter hitting at HW today, so walking through his punches is a whole different kettle of fish than to do it against the big guys with a big punch.
  15. reckless

    reckless Active Member Full Member

    Mar 18, 2018
    Mike Tyson was not 6'6 287lbs. It depends which version of Tyson shows up, Greene and Tucker went the distance.