Juan Manuel Marquez is underrated, he should be rated as one of the ATG

You left off some real specifics........

I'll start with Marquez turning down the Pacquiao rematch. Marquez really did'nt turn down the rematch, he turned down Arum's offer of 650K to rematch Pacquiao. Arum offered Marquez only 100K more than what he got for the original Pacquiao fight and Marquez thought both he and Pacquiao deserved more after the EPIC fight they had fought.
What Marquez wanted was for Arum to up the offer but Arum always plays hardball with the fighters in his stable who are not proven cash cows, but then something happened that Arum axed any talks with Marquez to up that offer. What happened was that Arum's cash cow Erik Morales lost his 3rd fight to Barrera, a fight Morales was favored to win. Morales' stock having dropped dramatically in losing to Barrera, Arum took the opportunity to then match Morales with Pacquiao.
Arum would have never matched Morales with Pacquiao at that time had Morales beaten Barrera, but because he lost, Morales now needed Pacquiao to revamp his status.
From what I read back then through the boxing grapevine, the Morales fight was offered to Marquez in passing with an offer meant to be refused.
1. Not enough time to train
and
2. Marquez had to sign on the dotted and commit himself to be further promoted by Arum for an x amount of fights.
Marquez allready knowing Arum was a crook was'nt going to do that.

The John fight for Marquez has nothing to do with turning down Pacquiao or Morales. In fact Pacquiao fought Morales in March of 2005.
After that fight had happened Marquez fought Victor Polo in May of 2005 and John a year later in March of 2006, which proves the nonsense that is constantly spewed by Ptards that Marquez turned down Pacquiao to take the John fight. That just is not true and the dates to those fights prove it.

One last thing, the John Championship fight went up for purse bids and Arum did'nt place a purse bid for that fight. John's promoter did and had Marquez refused to go to Indonesia to fight John, he would have still been under contract with Arum for another fight.
That fact that Arum did'nt make a bid on the fight nullified Marquez contract with Arum but only if he took the fight that had been up for purse bid.
In other words, fighting John in Indonesia was the only way to rid himself of Arum once and for all.

 

True the 650K offer was I think a low offer. I think Marquez wanted $1.5 mill though which was outlandish as Pac wasn't even getting that. But I do think Marquez should of at least been offered purse parity with Pac as he was the one with the belts and the last fight was a draw. What JMM thinks the fight was worth to both of them was unrealistic at the time, HBO were only going to pay out so much for a fight, neither of them were on Morales/MAB levels of fame yet and couldn't draw that kind of revenue.

Personally I think Arum did a horrible job promoting JMM and also under paid him through much of his career as he really was more invested into Pac and so yes he was playing hardball with JMM. I'm sure he could of offered more to JMM for the rematch but it was in his interest not to and make the Pac/Morales fights which were more lucrative for him.

Yes the Morales offer came with a stipulation that JMM extend his deal with Arum which considering how poorly he had promoted JMM was probably not something that appealed to JMM at the time. But 1.5 mill was a huge amount to refuse considering what JMM was making at the time. A win for JMM would of been huge back then and could of taken his career to the next level and he could of demanded a higher guarantee for future fights if he won. But I get why he declined the offer but with hindsight and what happened next with Arum refusing to make a bid on his mandatory and then being stripped of his belts and then being robbed vs John and then later going on be promoted by Arum again for many of his future fights it was a clear mistake to turn the Morales fight down.

I don't think he took the John fight because he turned down Pac as you say that doesn't make any sense. Didn't know about the purse bid for the John fight but what you said makes sense, he clearly wanted out of the Arum deal.

 

Floyd beat Castillo twice, Floyd destroyed Corrales.

 

Bradley did not knock out JMM like JMM put Pacquiao to sleep.

 

Olu, you turd. Why must you be so obtuse all the time?

 

I dont recall if Marquez was asking for 1.5 mil for the Pacquiao rematch, that is'nt ringing a bell of remembrance for me, but what Marquez was looking for was a negotiation to come to an agreement, but the 650k from Arum was a flat out take it or leave it deal that was all over the boxing media Arum degrading Marquez as undeserving of more than that.
Pacquiao was actually offered the sama amount 650k and he agreed to it only because he was being guided by a scumbag on par with Bob Arum who's name is Murad Muhamad. Pacquiao was so nieve bordeing on plain dumb back in those days that it never entered his mind he was getting screwed over.

On your premise that Arum played hardball with Marquez because he was more concerned getting Pacquiao fights and paid, thats not true. Back during that time window Arum was'nt Pacquiao's promoter, it was Murad Muhamad.
During the time in question, Arum's cash cow was Erik Morales, so any fights made by Arum that had to do with Marquez, had Erik Morales in mind first, its whats right for Morales before I even consider who I can get for Marquez to fight........and you have to remember here that Marquez at the time was considered by many boxing experts as the best featherweight in the world, and yet Arum was'nt treating him as belonging in that category.
........so when Barerra got the decision vs Morales in their rematch, that was the worse thing that could have happened to Marquez as Arum jumped at the opportunity to now not up the offer to make the Marquez-Pacquiao rematch and instead get Morales the fight with Pacquiao to restore Morales' status as being the best p4p in the world and again his signature cash cow.

There is so much drama to this story I can go on and on. I was truly invested in boxing back in those days.

Believe me, Marquez did the right thing in distancing himself away from Arum.
Arum has a real problem with fighters in his own stable asking questions, he does'nt like it when they
dont take him at his word and ask questions that a reasonably smart person would ask.

Remember Floyd Mayweather Jr.???
What happened to Marquez in the Top Rank stable also happened to him. Arum was downgrading everything
Mayweather did and instead of hyping him was doing the opposite through the boxing media. Arum was doing this with his own fighter Floyd Maywether Jr. who was under contract with Arum and Top Rank.
You're going to tell me Mayweather made a mistake in ending it with Bob Arum???
I dont think so and neither was it a mistake for Marquez to bolt right out of Arum's stable as Arum had to that point not done a damn thing to hype Marquez who for years boxing scribes had labeled as the best 126 pounder since Salvador Sanchez.
Hamed, Barrera, Morales, none wanted any part of Marquez and neither did those promoting them.
Hell even Freddie Roach did'nt want any part of Marquez, he was furious at Murad Muhamad when right off Pacquiao's upset victory over Barrera, he signed Pacquiao to fight Marquez. Roach was public about it too.
Roach came out and said he'd have left Marquez at the very end of the line as Marquez to him was not only the lesser known but also better of the three Mexicans.

 

He was my favourite fighter during the noughties and tens. His fight with Katsidis was goosebump material. One of the Mexican greats.

 

Go **** yourself. You obviously don’t like inconvenient facts.

 

You talk too much about daddy's for someone don't know who his own is....

 

Whit????? you takin the pish? lol

 

I'd say Canelos defeat to Floyd was every bit as one sided as Marquez's and Canelo was the naturally bigger guy with way more fights and another undefeated scalp Floyd took.

 

He should but I understand that Manny will always be the biggest name on his resume

 

Depends on your definition of all time great: Robinson , Duran ,Armstrong, Pep. Ali? Then the answer is no, he's not an all time great. I mean in any weight class he ever fought in would he be a top 5? Kinda doubt it but I loved watching him fight

 

ATG is marketing term for boxing fans.

 

Yeah, best win in Floyd Jr life was to not use Bob anymore.