Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Jose Luis Ramirez at LW

Would probably be a war. The weight is in favour of Ramirez i suppose, but JMM has shows his legitimacy at the weight as a world class operator. He's still sharper with his combos than Rosario, but he's very hittable, and Rosario is always trying to jab with authority with his right and fight all the time. Good fight, not sure.

 

I think Marquez is gonna be tasting canvas a few times in this one. As Teeto said he's still a world class operator at the weight but is still very hittable, To hittable for my liking against Ramirez who has the power at the weight to hurt Marquez an bring the best out of him. It will most likely turn into a war about the midway point but i don't think it would end well for Marquez, sometimes a fighters heart can get them in trouble an altho both fighters have high ring IQ, Its Ramirez power that takes it for me when they both start to trade. As a massive Marquez fan it hurts me to say, but i might have to go with Ramirez being the first man to stop marquez.

Ramirez KO/TKO

 

Marquez makes him look silly for about 4 or 5 rounds...Then JLR's pressure starts paying dividends on the physically smaller and more hittable at this weight Marquez.

What happens after that I honestly cant say...I can picture a few scenarios. The one popping in my head most right now is Marquez just squeaking by after a hellish few last rounds for him...But I dont know.

Good one KOTF, a lot better than some of your sadistic matchups you have been doing lately.

 

I feel the same way about this matchup that I do of Marquez vs Morales at any weight above 126 lbs.

Ramirez is simply too slow of hand and foot for a counterpuncher the caliber of Marquez.

Marquez is quicker, faster, sharper, and smarter for the slow footed plodder.

Its a style issue. Ramirez would have a better chance beating great fighters closer to his speed level and not as proficient on the counter. Guys like Arguello who Ramirez gave a run for his money, Rosario, etc......

Marquez by comfortable decision over Ramirez.

 

Marquez making him look silly early but then Ramirez coming on, does'nt make any sense to me at all.

Marquez does'nt have a history at any weight of tiring in any of his fights.......to the contrary, even at his fights so far at lightweight against Casa and Diaz, its been Marquez who was coming on late to knockout those guys.

If Marquez makes Ramirez look silly from the opening, he's a smarter and more capable fighter than Ramirez, that its only going to get worse for Ramirez, not better.

 

Ramirez is a bigger, tougher guy though Vlade. Juan may 'come on' against a 100 year old Joel Casamayor and a Juan Diaz who has the worst level of composure next to Zab Judah in the pro game, but it's another thing to do it against a guy like Jose Luis Ramirez who ate up everything that guys like Rosario, Arguello and Chavez threw at him and still came on.

This fight is indeed an intriguing one. On his day Ramirez matched it (and imo beat) Arguello, gave Whitaker a tough fight in his first outing and also (imo) beat Rosario twice. He also destroyed the otherwise solid Boza Edwards.

On his bad days though, he could get just about shut out by a Mancini or Camacho.

Nothing would surprise me from an easy Marquez win to Marquez being edged out or even stopped. I don't think Marquez is anything resembling a defensive genius, so if the best Ramirez shows up JMM will get hit plenty by Ramirez. Jose might catch up to him late, but it must be said that Marquez is really resilient and won't go easily.

I'm not sure it's right to say Ramirez had trouble with quick fighters per se, since Rosario was fairly quick, as was Whitaker and he still troubled him in their first fight (of coruse Pea had a broken hand....) but quick fighters with movement certainly troubled him. I think Marquez (especially at lightweight) is pretty flat footed and will be in Jose's striking zone for long periods of the fight.

 

Marquez is not quicker than either Arguello or Rosario at lightweight. More proficient on the counter? Maybe. Arguello wasn't bad in that department though, even if it wasn't his m.o. with consistency throughout a bout.

 

Quite clearly its a different fight to the ones where Marquez was coming on.

Tiring isnt the issue..Its how well his body holds up to the physical rigours Ramirez will put him through. Not only the punishment he will take from JLR but the kind of punishment his hands etc will take from dishing it out.
JLR has the kind of style that pays dividends later and it often did. Keeping up with Diaz is a testement to his conditioning but Juan Diaz's shots arent going to take the same kind of toll that Jose Luis Ramirez's shots arr.

 

Marquez imo was significantly quicker to get his punches out when you compare him to Arguello and Rosario......I'm not talking a night and day difference, but there is a difference there.
There are very few fighters that can instinctively counter like Marquez can, and thats just nightmarish if you're significantly slower like Ramirez was.
The Pacquiao fights for Marquez certainly prove that even against a much quicker and faster aggressor he can counter like a master and take the hits from a real bonafide power puncher.

.....you mentioned Chavez vs Ramirez?
Please, Ramirez is Chavez' brother in law, its plain to see Chavez did'nt have the heart to take it to Ramirez and bring down the thunder.
That was even a Ramirez who was on the way down, and Chavez just took it easy on him.

 

When you're talking about dividends, Marquez would'nt get hit as much against Ramirez that he did Diaz either.......they're just two different types of fighters.

 

Id reckon about 5 of Diaz's pitter pat punches are worth one of Ramirez's.

If JLR gets buzzed early like he did against Diaz in the first bout...you best believe he aint getting off the hook so easily.

Baby Bull's punches dont wear ya down the same way Jose's did.

But as sweet said its heavily dependent on which JLR shows up...Marquez almost always comes in focused, on his game and with his urine levels high.

 

Marquez got buzzed, but Diaz throws more volume and is faster than Ramirez.

Something to consider is that Ramirez is'nt going to rack up the type of suffocating attack that Diaz' game brings.

Ramirez imo is just alot easier to gauge where his shots are coming from that Marquez would'nt get caught with a big shot against him.

However, I will concede that if Marquez gets carried away with himself and takes it to Ramirez before he's good and ready to go, as he did vs MAB when Marquez got knocked down, Ramirez' power could take him through where MAB could not.
...unlikely to happen though. Marquez would know that Ramirez is a dangerous puncher.

 

I would take Marquez by decison in a fight that would draw closer at the end. Marquez will land everything including the kitchen sink...and Ramirez will walk through everything he's got...Marquez will have to survive some rough spots down the stretch, but he would. Marquez by unanimous decision.

 

I would go with Divacs assessment.

Ramirez brings the wrong kind of pressure to beat a Marquez. Slow, steady and straight is simply what Marquez eats alive. He is great at taking angles, throwing the correct combinations at the right times and is a tremendous counter puncher, not to mention a fairly good puncher in terms of power in his own right.

He has all the skills to make Ramirez look foolish, and I don't see Jose having the tools to win the fight. It would be one thing if he could literally walk through Marquez's punches, but he couldn't, particularly the right hand and the uppercuts. He'd have to give JMM a modicum of respect, and that, to me, takes away his best opportunity to win.