Juan Manuel Marquez was overrated

The John and Norwood fights weren't robberies. Close fights both of which I thought he won, but he looked poor in doing so because of his stylistic weakness against guys who gave little away, made him punch on the front foot and didn't allow him to set his feet . The Barrera fight was legitimately close too, great fight that one with some fine textbook box-punching and countering on display. I've scored it both ways tbh. Barrera was the more worn of the two in ring years by that time though, his legs and output were faded.

Marquez deserves credit for not steering clear of tricky opponents or being shielded from them by his management like Morales was for example. You don't want to be facing old Medina, John, Norwood, Polo, Gainer, Salido, Wheeler in a relatively short span when you're a slow-footed, countering-orientated stylist. Those guys weren't elite talents or great fighters though. Far from it, and the fact that Marquez found himself in choppy waters with them speaks for itself. Great fighter no doubt. Aesthetically excellent, a superb and technically proper punch-picker and combo hitter against easy to near-medium targets. A hard fecker too with fine powers of recovery and composure under fire as well as a good punch. Wonderful timing on his shots. Quite well-schooled on the defensive side but with mediocre defensive reflexes and a susceptibility to straight punches shared by other Beristain-trained fighters. And quite obviously as mentioned prior, slow feet and a very defined comfort zone of operation outside of which he could be made to struggle by fighters who were merely decent or competent at fighting on the move. Even against Pac, who he bettered imo- wonderfully so- over their series, his struggles largely came when Pac fought more patiently and set traps instead of marching straight in and over-committing.

On a tangent, for example, I think JMM was greater than Johnny Famechon, Howard Winstone and Jose Legra, but I'd favour them all to beat him h2h I think and at least to make any fight perilously close and debatable. He'd struggle with a guy like Fammo particularly, I feel. Someone defensively tight, clever and fleet of foot with a good jab. I think Ruben Castillo, Pat Cowdell, Pat Ford etc would be a hard nights work too, but conversely I could see him doing quite well to varying degrees against the likes of Little Red, Nelson, Morales if he fought aggressively, Saddled, Arguello etc. Maybe even Saldivar, Fenech and similar, though not enough to win I don't think.

I've just been rewatching bits of the Diaz and Katsidis fights. Great stuff.

 

I'd agree that he has surpassed Morales and Barrera, yeah.

 

One of the things about Marquez I like that kept even dreary insomnia cures like the Salido fight interesting and engaging throughout on at least some level, was how he could look incredibly plodding, uninspiring and pedestrian for long stretches, but then a micro-opportunity that you as a viewer had barely even registered would present itself, and in an instant he'd explode an inch perfect counter into an opponent's face and follow it up with three or four more surgeon-like ones either straight out of the textbook or with a more riffing, eclectic selection. Brilliant in that regard almost to the point where unless you had atg timing and ability yourself, you threw punches at him at your peril.

 

Excellent synopsis! Very insightful and well-balanced analysis of his strengths and limitations.

On a side note, are there any particular Famechon, Winstone, or Legra fights you'd recommend to see those guys at their best?

 

JMM seems to always be in the shadows of other fighters, even after KOing Pac. Although people do overreact about his win against Pac I think JMM falls down the middle between underrated and overrated.

 

I have not seen a whole lot of people over or underrate him...well at least until this thread... but I still figure this is a joke or a troll or both

 

Disagree, probably one of the most under rated Mexican fighters ever.

 

To the people who think he's underrated--underrated how? And by whom?

I don't get it. Seems like everyone credits him with being a smart, tough, gutsy counterpuncher with some high-quality wins. Despite the fact that he struggled against a number of elite and non-elite opponents throughout his career. What am I missing?

 

I posted the Legra-Famechon and Legra-Jofre fights on YouTube. The Legra-Winstone second fight is on there too as are Winstones fights with Saldivar and Famechon-Saldivar. Those are all good to watch as are Famechons fights with Harada. If not for Saldivar then I think at least one of those guys would have gone down as a great. All three are excellent fighters.

I agree that Marquez has a tough time with them all but I think his pinpoint punching and accuracy and power would shift the fights enough in his favor of make the opponent too defensive to beat Marquez who IMO is just a level above them.

 

A shot MAB arguably beat him.

 

Me and a friend were talking about this the other day. Even Marquez’ stinkers were good to watch because of that skill, how good he looked technique wise and the little explosions. Marquez usually either feasted on a brave opponent or made guys think too much.

 

I’ve never seen the controversy in that fight and Barrera wasn’t shot. He was coming off excellent form and a great performance and he looked sharp and good in the Marquez fight.

 

I don't think Marquez is necessarily 'underrated' but, as another poster has alluded to, he spent time in the shadow of his fellow Mexicans and was seen, for some time, as the nearly-man against Pacquiao.

I think it's difficult to categorically state Marquez has been underrated, given that he was considered for much of the last 10 years of his career as a top-ten pound-for-pounder.

 

I disagree...close but clean to me. In all honesty Marquez didnt quite like himself that night while MAB looked better than expected. I was actually pulling for MAB at the time but again felt Marquez close but clean