Juan Roldan versus Mustafo Hamsho

Hamsho late Entertainig bout like all those Roldan efforts were.

 

Hamsho was the second best middleweight in the world for several years.

Roldan was not.

 

It takes a buzzsaw to beat a buzzsaw, not a hammer.

 

This would be one slobber knocker of a fight,, I lean towards Hamsho as the favorite to win but Roldan is a live dog.

 

I think Hamsho got more out of his ability, but that Roldan was actually the more talented fighter. He had immense strength, surprisingly good speed of hand/foot, big puncher, a good sense of distance, and he was very accurate for the sort of "load up with every ounce of strength" unorthodox bombs he regularly throws. I think he's the vastly better offensive fighter here when compared to Hamsho's sub-Steve Collins slop. The way he was tagging and bulling Hagler regularly in those early rounds before the unfortunate eye closure, forcing Hearns to go all out to land the big bomg first, the Fletcher destruction, and particularly the savagely one-sided beating of a good, well-schooled boxer-puncher like Kinchen, where he showed he could shorten those shots up, fight well on the turn and against the ropes too...

imo, his main issue that stopped him from going to that next level as a brawling tank of a powerpuncher was that he just lacked that extra level of poise, determination; and, while not lacking durability, he didn't have the sort of granite chin that would make not being a relentless, imperturbable machine like Marciano or Sung-Kil Moon a non-issue. He showed an inclination to get frustrated by surprising setbacks (an eye being shut early) or lose heart by 8/9 if you were doing well against him. But you needed to have enough skill, strength, durability and/or power to take the play away from him for a sustained period of time or end it quickly- I'm not sure Hamsho had enough of any of that.

Hamsho didn't have the same physical or offensive talent. He was a good mauling spoiler in the Vito mould, but it was an offence that excelled in frustrating and crowding/outslopping, fouling and outworking lighter-hitting textbook boxers (as long as they weren't too tough to hit or with enough workrate to match his) and less physical orthodox pressure fighters...not the sort of sharp, fast, heavy punches that would get the respect of a Roldan. He wasn't hard to hit or skillful. His main advantage here is that I think he's more determined in the long run if things take a bad turn. But ultimately, he's a guy that can only win by imposing himself thoroughly on the other fighter aggressively. I have significant doubts all of his other abilities are enough for that here, whereas with Roldan the only thing that gives me pause is that I can't be sure if he would respond well enough if Hamsho's still there as it gets late in the fight, or shows a higher level of durability to Roldan's brutal offence than I think he's capable of.

He's not going to be landing the cleaner, more regular punches or coming off better in the exchanges with this very active, physical beast. Maybe if he'd performed better offensively against Minter and Hagler (a washed up Benitez was a scalp of little relevance imo), but it's comparing the way both tried to break down a good boxer-puncher in Minter/Kinchen that really shows the difference in talent imo. I don't think Minter was all that washed up in the traditional sense when he fought Hamsho, despite it being technically at the end of his career, but he was clearly very affected by all the cuts losses he'd piled up and the way he'd lost the title so quickly because of it, not that he was ever going to trouble that Marvin too much regardless. He's far more tentative and inactive against Hamsho than his pre-Hagler approach, trying to win with a more stick and move, pure-boxing, jab-heavy approach... with which he wasn't elusive or active enough with to stop Hamsho out-timing (the man undeniably didn't have an easy rhythm to solve) and outworking him, yet on the occasions when he did let his hands go and commit to some heavier power punching (he was always a deceptively dangerous, hard hitting puncher) he had Hamsho wobbled, while clearly gaining enough respect to slow his pressure and control the range or stand at ring-centre for a time; he just didn't sustain it anywhere near enough. My main takeaway from that fight was that while Hamsho was the worthy, clear winner over ten, and had enough tools/effective mauling awkwardness that he'd still have a 50/50 chance of winning a hard-fought first encounter with the far more active, aggressive '70s Minter (especially allowing for cuts), he also showed nothing to suggest he'd fair any better against a prime version over a series of fights than other unorthodox, deceptively tough to time, yet technically flawed brawlers like Tonna (a much bigger puncher more stylistically comparable in strengths/weaknesses to Roldan) or Antuofermo that beat/arguably beat him first time around did. That is, once the tough first fight is out of the way and the unorthodox mauling isn't as much of an issue to time, they've not quite got enough about them to avoid being decisively beaten.

Roldan vs Kinchen, though...it's a thoroughly one-sided brawling, accurate power punching clinic at all distances on a good, prime, stiff-hitting boxer-puncher in a way that it makes you wonder if that level of orthodox, skilled boxer-puncher (Kinchen was similar to Watson circa the Benn/McCallum fight imo, just a bit less consistently precise) could ever be favoured over the Argentine bull. I've no doubts that if you put that Roldan in with the Minter that fought Hamsho, he'd roll over the top of him or at least quickly force Alan to have no illusions about winning without 100% offensive effort.

So, 70/30 odds for me that Roldan takes Hamsho's pressure and gradually backs and then smashes him up with his accurate, fast bombs in a high-action slugfest for a stoppage circa 7-12 or a wide decision that becomes a more competitive maul-fest late. Minority outcomes...Roldan obliterates the easy to hit, less formidably offensive Hamsho with a shocking knockout within 4-6, or loses a close decision/retires on his stool while in front on the cards (but fading) with an "injury" after Hamsho proves to be the more determined and is more durable and effective offensively than I expect.

I see Hamsho vs Sibson similarly. That's another more naturally talented, muscle-tank wrecking ball with some inconsistency/mental issues that should in theory match up well in a brawl with Hamsho and might just horribly cave his face in, but with enough flaws to provide interesting room for doubt.

 

Wow, good fight. I'll say a draw and the crowd gets an action packed fight.

 

Hamsho lost to Pay Cuillo his first fight.

 

Great action fight. Not sold on who wins but it would be fun to see

 

Two strongman fighting in what would be a wild brawl . Hamsho despite heavily bleeding remains on his feet to win by dec .

 

I'd go with Roldan.

 

In a loaded middleweight division ruled by Alpha Hagler, Hamsho was very clearly the Beta. He stopped Boogaloo when that was still a tremendous achievement, beat Scypion for Wilford's first defeat, Czyz for Bobby's first loss, Curtis Parker 2X, Minter (the only decision Alan ever lost), and ended Benitez's prime with a shellacking far more one-sided than the official cards suggest. (I had it something like 120-104 or 105, but disclaimer here that I am of Syrian descent.)

Czyz said immediately after their bout that Hamsho's immense physical strength was the difference. In the bout, Bobby nail Mustafa flush with his hardest punch, and the Syrian returned fire with his own hardest punch.

Those are six wins which would make for a highly credible string of MW Title defenses.

For Roldan, handing Kinchen his first stoppage loss is a good win, but otherwise there's not even a hint of Juan's resume being remotely on the level of Hamsho's. Frank Fletcher got him to Hagler, and he decisioned Teddy Mann over ten, but otherwise his dossier's rather anemic compared to Mustafa's. (Fletcher was extremely impressive at the time though, granted. Frank was extremely familiar to television audiences. It shows how packed the MW division was that guys like Curtis Parker, The Animal, Dwight Davison, John LoCicero, John Collins and others couldn't even get through to MMH, whose only subpar challenger was Caveman Lee. The MW division Monzon and Hagler ruled over wasn't weak like the LHW division Bob Foster had. And until MMH II, Hamsho was the clear #2 at 160. I see no other Hagler opponent who definitely would've beaten Hamsho.)

Head to head, Roldan has to deal with that southpaw lead left cross Hamsho repeatedly nailed Minter with (including four in succession late in their war). Juan didn't have the power to hurt prime Hamsho, who absorbed everything from Czyz, Scypion, LaLonde, and in the Hagler I bloodbath.

What happened in Hagler II? I think Mustafa dropped off after the sudden death of Paddy Flood at just 48 from a cerebral hemorrhage. Flood's memory drove him to his utter domination of Benitez, and as we passionate Syrians do, he bawled like a baby when tearfully dedicating his win over El Radar to Paddy during his post fight interview (and he later said he heard Flood in his mind during the bout saying, "Keep your head down, pour on the pressure, don't let him breathe...), but I suspect he was disheartened and undertrained for Hagler II. (Flood had him doing 12 miles of roadwork daily, combining walking with wind sprints and jogging.)


Mustafa Hamsho could enter the ring to Pat Benatar singing "Hit me with your best shot! Fire away!" Juan would do exactly that, Hamsho would respond in kind, then Mustafa would mug him through the remaining rounds.

Clear UD for Hamsho. Roldan simply wasn't at Mustafa's level. Again, compare their resumes. Mustafa beat a far higher caliber of opposition.

 

I think Hamsho's just the tougher guy here. The fight would be won on toughness, durability, stamina, intestinal fortitude, and Hamsho has it in spades. IMO he'd wear down Roldan, whose right hand is easily the hardest punch in the contest, and then some but Hamsho's chin at his best was concrete. He'd smother him when he could and let his hands go inside. I think it would be a rip roaring fight for many rounds with Hamsho eventually wearing him down late. He lacks the crispness in his punches to get him out of there earlier.

 

Mustafa Hamsho was a tricky fighter,packed with some of the most dirtiest moves someone would ever see,if he didn't get DQ'ed first I favor him to decision Roldan on a tough firefight.

 

At the end of the day, I can't see how this doesn't progress (devolve?) into a brawling, mauling slugfest. I don't see Hamsho being beaten by anyone at that game.

The one guy to knock Hamsho down a peg did it not by "outfighting" him but by being disciplined, by being a sharpshooter and countering, by standing his ground but doing so with sharp combinations, movement, limiting exchanges at close quarters, and sticking to the gameplan. THAT'S how you beat a prime Hamsho. Trying to outmuscle and trade with him is just playing into his hands.