Judging them on RESUME ONLY, who is top of the three - JONES, HOPKINS or TONEY?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Feb 24, 2009.


  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I believe he is definitely in their league in terms of resume, very much in the mix in this one. His mw/smw resume 1991-94 is superb, his wins over Nunn, McCallum and Jirov are particularly brilliant. Add those to wins over a raft of solid comp like past-prime Holyfield, Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa, Iran Barkley, Doug DeWitt, Tim Littles, Prince Charles Williams, cruiserweight Jason Robinson, and Brooker and Guinn at heavy, and you have a severe contender here.

    * If Toney had got the decision in the 1st Peter fight (as I think he should have), he would have a compelling argument for having the best resume. A judge's decision could have made the difference, so no-one can tell me there isn't a tiny margin between all three.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think there has been some underating of how hard it is for a former MW to string wins together at HW here.

    Toney is the guy who made the most ripples at HW.
     
  3. mrbassie

    mrbassie Boxing Addict Full Member

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  4. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    roy jones have more emphatic wins...but tarver loss may have cause him a lot for people to think that bhop has a better resume
     
  5. FROST

    FROST Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As promised, I will give my thoughts about this subject. So who got the best resume?

    Concerning Roy Jones resume, I will only consider his resume as a pro and ignore his merits as an amateur – anything else wouldn’t be fair towards Toney and Hopkins. A big point can be made for Roy Jones in that he actually beat both Toney and Hopkins. Coincidentally these were his most telling wins. Now it is true that Toney was weakened and weight-drained on the night they fought, and Hopkins hadn’t reached his prime yet; but then again it was not Roy Jones fault that Toney wasn’t 100% on fight-night (Toney was considered by some experts to be the #1 P4P fighter at that time), and while Hopkins was still a bit green when he fought Roy Jones, he actually had two pro fights more than Roy (of course Hopkins didn’t have the same amateur background). Besides these two great wins against Toney and Hopkins, Roy Jones has beaten a lot of other good to great fighters, namely (old) Mike McCallum, Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, John Ruiz (at HW), Reggie Johnson, Tito Trinidad, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Vinny Pazienza, Eric Harding, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Jorge Fernando Castro and Merqui Sosa (in no particular order, btw. thx boxre.), and won countless titles at MW, SMW, LHW and even HW. He also beat a lot of journeymen, but Hopkins and Toney did that too. Roy Jones was consistent in his prime and dominated, yes, even outclassed most of his opponents. This speaks for him. He’s had a very respectable total of 57 pro fights - until now. What speaks against Roy Jones are his bitter losses to Tarver, Glen Johnson and Calzaghe late in his career – maybe we wouldn’t have this discussion here if Roy Jones retired after the first Tarver fight?
    (however he would get criticized for not having faced tougher opposition then again, something he can’t be criticized for now).

    Concerning Hopkins, I have to say, in all honesty, that Hopkins stay at MW wasn’t that impressive. Yes, he was consistent as a MW champ, but besides his big wins against Tito Trinidad and Glen Johnson (and to a lesser extent also Oscar de la Hoya), he only beat some decent contenders like William Joppy, Howard Eastman, Syd Vanderpool and Antwun Echols, and a lot of journeymen. Hopkins status as a great MW champion tends to get overrated. But I feel that Hopkins victories AFTER he moved up from MW, when he was supposed to be past his best, did as much if not more to his resume than his stay at MW. He went on to beat Tarver, Winky Wright and finally Kelly Pavlik (at age 43!), all big victories that made him into the ATG he sure is. And his career isn’t even finished yet, or so it seems. Also, in my book, Hopkins won both fights against Jermain Taylor and also his fight against Joe Calzaghe (although these were all very close fights of course), meaning he only lost his pro debut and to Roy Jones. On a side note, Hopkins was more competitive against Roy Jones than Toney was, and he should have got that rematch against Roy. Hopkins was never superman, like Roy was in his prime, however he never fell as deep as Roy did late in his career. On the contrary, at age 44 Hopkins seems rejuvenated and fresher than he has been in ten years. He can still add a couple high quality wins to his resume while it seems too late now for Roy Jones and Toney.

    James Toney has never been as consistent as Roy Jones or Bernard Hopkins in their primes, but when it comes to longevity, he tops them both. Yes, even Hopkins. During Toneys 20+ year long career, he fought 80 pro fights against mostly good to great opposition, fom MW up to HW. Hopkins has ‘only’ 56 fights in two divisions (which is still very respectable). Toney fought a total of 11 fights in one year alone – now that’s old-school! And Toney was competitive with the best in every division (except for Roy), plus he has never been stopped or even been close to being stopped. Lets do a list with his most notable wins: Michael Nunn (the iron-chinned ATG Michael Nunn got knocked out for the first and last time by a still green James Toney), Evander Holyfield (who was past his best but still considered a top5 HW at the time of the fight), Mike McCallum (twice), Iran Barkley, Vassily Jirov, Reggie Johnson, Charles Williams and Tim Littles. He beat lots of other good fighters too, too many to mention. Of course Toney always had off nights in between where he showed us very disappointing performances against journeymen (Tiberi, Thadzi…), and that hurts his resume a lot, but you have to consider that Toney also fought A LOT – more than Roy Jones or Hopkins. And I will not even go into Toney getting robbed against Montell Griffin twice, Samuel Peter in the first fight or Hasim Rahman in the rematch. As my fellow poster The Blade pointed out, Toneys run at HW, though not fulfilling the expectations that were put in him, is worth more than Roy Jones single stunt against John Ruiz. Period. Toney proved he can hang in there with the much bigger and stronger HWs. He hasn’t become the HW champ, nor did he win and keep a major belt, but he’s been a deserving contender and campaigning among the top ten for years. Toneys use of roids in two fights at HW has certainly tainted his legacy, however, it hasn’t tainted his resume. The official and deserved NC against John Ruiz, who he beat easily (and more impressively than Roy Jones did), is what taints his resume. The situation is exactly the same with him not staying focused outside of the ring. Toney never reached his full potential, however, he reached a lot, and he’s been in the picture since 1991, when nobody talked about Hopkins and few about Roy Jones (as a pro). Ok, there have been some dark years when Toney disappeared from the big scene and had to fight on really small cards (yes, even in parking lots!), but he always resurfaced at the top – this also adds to his legacy, if not directly to his resume. And who knows? Chances are Toney might be in for another appearance in the spotlight, maybe even for a last good win…

    So who got the best resume? I guess everybody has to decide this for themselves, depending on what you value most - consistency, quality of opponents, longevity - but in my humble opinion, James Toney has the best resume. The fact that he fought 600+ pro rounds against a ‘who is who’ in five different weight divisions can not be overlooked. Who has done that since Bob Fitzsimmons a decade ago? As James Toney put it himself: ‘check my record!’
     
  6. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member

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    Roy Jones and this is coming from a huge Hopkins fan.
     
  7. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    IMO, It's Hopkins.
    (He has the names & accomplishment's on his resume)
    + Hopkins actually fought against live opponent's & credible challenger's.
    (And is still doing it, B-Hop is defo proving to be the class)
     
  8. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Hit the nail right on the head !!
     
  9. BULLFROMBORNEO

    BULLFROMBORNEO Active Member Full Member

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    BHOP has the least impressive record here, a good record indeed, but compared to Jones and Toney?

    Hopkins' best wins are mostly just " names ".. they're not at the calibur of wins over the likes of Nunn, or McCallum, and maybe not even Griffin.
     
  10. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    jones manhandled every opponent and won almost 90% of the rounds in his prime...now bhop had a hard time disposing off segundo mercado...resume is the overall record of the boxer's career and includes the manner he won and losses
     
  11. Vitor Belfort

    Vitor Belfort Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jones easily he beat both toney and b.hop :good