Julio Caesar Chavez, has his "star" faded?

I didn't put words in your mouth. Once again, my original post was in response to what someone else said about Floyd "toying" with Chavez. You chose to respond to that and have now taken it out of context.

 

I haven't. I can respond to anyone, this is a forum. You're implying that Mayweather has difficulty with Chavez on the strength of him struggling with Castillo. I was simply taking the opporunity to play devils advocate and highlight that your point only tells half of the story and for me is surrounded with some degree of subjectivity.

Ultimately, I believe Mayweather would not toy with Chavez, I gave my opinion on that before my discussion with you began.

 

Over the span of two fights, Mayweather didn't impress. That was my point. You can say a win is a win, and that is true. But when we're pitting two fighters against each other the quality of those wins and in particular the performances certainly comes into play.

Cool.

 

yeah, it comes into play, Mayweather impressed me in the rematch. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on his performance on that one.

:good

 

I really can't think of any performance I genuinely enjoy watching more than his breaking down of Rosario. I'm gradually coming to the opinion that Duran & Whitaker are the only lightweights who beat him, maybe Armstrong, and he'd absolutely run all of them very close at his peak. Brilliant fighter.

 

Gavin Rees would have Chavez his ass

 

There was a thread a while back that asked the question "do losses after fighter's prime diminish his legacy?" And the overwhelming concensus was "no"...so if that sentiment prevails here, then why should anyone hold JCC's latter days as a lesser force in a higher division against him...as after all, in the time he spent at junior welter he was surely past his lightweight prime, wasn'r he?

 

Dammit teeto, he's omitted by default. You know that. Totally unfair to match anyone with him.

 

Amazing display of defense combined with offense.....But my personal favorite is probably against Mario Martinez......

 

my bad

apologies

no disrespect meant to Rees

 

A ****ing clinic. One of my favorite fights to watch.

I would have loved to see he and Whitaker at lightweight do a trilogy.

 

This is why when comparing fighters of different times, we phrase the question of who would have won wrongly. Unserious observers watch a film of say jack Dempsey with Tunney, a Barney Ross against Armstrong, a Frazier against Foreman, a Louis against Marciano, a Willie Pep against Sandy Saddler [after Pep's near fatal plane crash], and yes a Julio Caesar Chavez ,fading after 80-90 bouts , and compare these versions of these great fighters against other great boxers...I try in my analysis of fantasy matches, try to imagine fighters in their respective primes when they were at their bests. And Julio Caesar Chavez's reputation suffers today because
he overstayed his welcome, fighting too long after his 130-5 lb prime.
A tough opponent for most any jr LW and LW in history, including
Pernell Whitaker...Lest we forget...

 

his problem was similar to Duran. He moved up and fought better guys and lost, so it is easy to say it is because he moved up rather than he was fighting better guys. Had Whitaker been at lightweight when Duran or Chavez was he would have probably beaten both of them.

 

One of the first bouts I sat down to watch as a commited boxing fan was the first Chavez/Taylor out. This was the high water mark of his career. For a long time I felt he was overrated, and at 140 despite his secuess there he is overrated. However he's one of the best ever at 130 and should at least be talked about when putting toegether a top 10 lightweight list.
He had very good boxing skills and defense as a presure fighter. Unlike Duran they have not been overrated over time. Which hurts his legend.

 

The consensus may have been no, but in boxing fans and fighters every day, I see it in practice.

Evander Holyfield was considered a top 10 ATG almost unanimously in my circle about 10 years ago. Now?

He's dropped. It happens. It's unfair, its wrong, but part of the question is why isn't he a legend on every single fans lips, and this is why.