julio caesar chavez sr in prime vs pacman @140 lbs who wins ???

Remind you of Tommy Hearns? lol man oh well. If Pac runs like Khan, he'll lose by decision. If he doesnt run, he'll lose by ko or tko.

 

Don't let the avatar fool you into thinking I'm just talking out of my ass. This is a stylistic matchup that favors Pacquiao through and through. Both these guys are willing to get hit to land their own. So it isn't farfetched to say that whoever wins those sustained exchanges would prolly end up winning. So forgive me if I go with the faster, more powerful, more dynamic offensive fighter. Forgive me if I go with the guy that had guys 15-20 lbs heavier backing off and covering up.

And get off it man, you talk about me using vague terms than you proceed to use "Educated Pressure". There's no empirical measure for "educated pressure". I can easily throw that term right back at ya. How can anyone tell me that Chavez can use educated pressure whereas pac cannot? At least I'm throwing punchstats to show you that Chavez is there to get hit. Both Taylor and Sweetpea landed over 300 punches. Pac has accomplished this feat in more than a couple of occasions. What's a common denominator with Taylor, Pea, and Pac?....that's right, fast hands fleet feet. There's nothing vague about that comparison. There's nothing illogical in assuming Pac would have similar success in landing. Now factor in Pac's 2 handed power and that notion is amplified. Imma venture to say, without even referencing Pac's boxrec, that any fight in his record where he landed that many punches must've resulted in a ko.

How you think these observations doesn't apply when gauging how Pac would do against Chavex is outright silly. These aren't generalizations, these are patterns. And when you see a pattern than that's what makes a prediction more credible. This notion is born right out of the scientific method.

 

give me your interprutation of educated pressure

 

can you explain why you think Chavez is there to be hit? if he was im pretty sure with Taylor's speed he would have beaten Chavez and by the end if you look at both of them Chavez did not get hit as much as it seemed, people always underate his defensive abilities jsut because he wasn't the slickest boxer out there

 

JCC stops Pac

 

I just have to respond here. Pernell was awesome defensively with his ring posture and generalship, his body positioning, and his accuracy, BUT he is a terrible terrible terrible finisher whose knock outs were almost always 1 punch accidents: he happened to catch you just right and you were OUT. there was no plan to finish, and when he "went for it" against, I believe, Hurtado, it was like a flukish bit of luck that that one handed beating resulted in a stoppage. He's THE WORST SUPER ELITE FIGHTER EVER at setting up a knock out, they were never planned, they were just one punch flukes. Terrible finisher, AWFUL. Everything else was sublime. He was just as surprised as his opponent when he got a knock out.

There is one early fight where every punch he lands hurts his opponent, and he knocks the guy down in like every other round, but he doesn't know what to do to go for it, randomly switches to the body, wastes time, runs away, etc. It should have been a 1st round stoppage but the guy survived I think the whole 8 rounds or whatever the fight was.

 

atsch

 

I could give you my interpretation of educated pressure and what will end up happening is us arguing over semantics. My point is you can't use that term as an argument "for" Chavez while discounting it as something Manny can't use. Besides, it's not that hard to pressure Manny....more than likely he'll be right there more than willing to indulge Chavez's "educated" pressure with a brand of his own.

 

This really could go either way, both guys have weaknesses that play into the others hands.

 

What was a prime Chavez' weakness?

 

I know you probably did already, but imagine a hypothetical in which Steele let Meldrick finish those last 2 seconds. He would've won a majority decision. As it was, it was a really flukey win for Chavez. That was the most controversial fight of the 90's. Two seconds was the difference. Why do you think he would've won...do you think he was just being cute or was he consistently landing on JCC? If Meldrick had the quality to go with his quantity than it prolly would've turned out differently for Meldrick in a more decisive way. And this qualitative nature of punching is yet another factor to consider when gauging a potential Pac/Chavez fight. Manny was marking up guys in Shane and Marquez who were refusing to engage him in sustained exchanges. If a free-flowing power-punching Pac lands that many on Chavez, it's reasonable to predict it going badly for Chavez. I'm not so much underrating Chavez's defensive abilities, I'm just putting more stock on Pac's offensive capability on a willing target.

 

A good mover with fast hands and feet, someone that uses lots of lateral and in/out movement as well to help nullify his vicious inside assault.

 

In Pacquiao's prime I've seen him bent over by body punches, I've seen him staggered by punches, and I've seen him confused by fighters who know how to move and slip punches, hell Barrera managed to make Pac chicken dance when he hit him on the break.

In JCC's prime he fought and beat to a pulp to of the fastest, very skilled fighters ever in Taylor and Camacho. He fought dominated and was unphased by some of the hardest P4P punchers like HoF Chapo.

There isn't much Pac can do to stop El Gran Campeon from raping him.

 

How did you come up with that?

Also, have you ever seen Camacho fight? :think

 

I used my minds eye... like Professor Xavier from the X-Men.

Yeah, great fighter, but Pac is better.