Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Ahhh,,,Tony Galento...a tub of punching power and finesse

 

To be honest this is fairly close.


I give JCC the nod overall.

 

yes, chavez is greater beating tomato cans and his inflated record is greater yes

 

Yeah but that list is biased towards Americans. Read it on the internet.

 

Going back to August 1941, only Elmer Ray had knocked out Lee Savold [in August 1946], covering a span of 55 fights over ten years for Savold. Joe hooked Lee to the deck for the count in June 1951 for the final knockout win of the Bomber's career, softening up Lee for his career ending beating at the hands of Marciano. But even in sending Savold to the hospital, Rocky failed to drop him, and Lee lasted long enough to retire in his corner after round six, the same round Joe previously one punched him to the floor in.

For his final career win, Louis decisioned Bivins over ten. Jimmy talked about his experience with "Big Red" during his 1999 IBHOF induction speech. From 1946 on, The Cleveland Spider Man would tend to blow hot and cold, but would go on to knock out Coley Wallace in nine and retire after decisioning a young up and coming Mike DeJohn in October 1955. So Joe's final win was over an HOFer and honorary member of "Murderer's Row."

Two fights earlier, tough Freddie Beshore had nearly taken Ezzard Charles into the 15th round of their title fight, and only a badly cauliflowered ear prevented Beshore from hearing the final bell. Louis took four rounds to carve Freddie into bloody defeat to open an active 1951.

Omelio Agramonte 2X and Marciano stablemate Cesar Brion 2X were decent wins. Louis wasn't beating stiffs during his eight fight winning comeback streak. He was still a top contender, if not what he had been. A case can be discussed as to whether knocking out Savold and decisioning HOFer Bivins were noteworthy enough.

 

Prime Louis by KO. He's more skilled, 70lbs bigger, hits harder and FASTER. Julio Caesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis? NO.

 

In many ways, Louis was textbook. With the partial exception of his jab [which both Jack Johnson and Max Schmeling pinpointed before Schmeling-Louis I], he threw every punch in the book correctly. Film analysis reveals him to be the most accurate puncher of all the heavyweight champions. If there had been no WW II, and the volatile Jack Blackburn hadn't been a drunk who died prematurely at age 59 [but instead shared the octogenarian or nonagenarian lifespan of a Dundee, Futch, Arcel, Kearns, Lou Duva or Archie Moore], would this conversation even be taking place here?

[Noteworthy, how many ATG boxing trainers live long and active lives. Yancey Durham was one of the few exceptions. At age 52, he was the same age as Holmes was for Butterbean when Yank suffered his fatal stroke. Even Manny Steward lived to be 68. That age would have taken Blackburn through to the actual end of Joe's career in 1951, assuming a functional level of health, of course.]

Take away JCC's statistical volume, just how much precedent setting did he achieve, how much did he transform the sport, how lasting is his impact? If I want to know how to correctly unload a quintuple hook to the head, like the one Louis finished round three against Max Baer with, it won't be JCC footage I'll be studying. [Joe maintained perfect balance and positioning after missing those first two hooks. Foreman might have pirouetted completely out of the ring after missing one, as he nearly did earlier in the round where Ali knocked him out.]

87-0-0 is stunning on paper, as is the fact of a 25 year career, but he didn't get to the 100 knockout plateau shared by Gans, Armstrong, Robinson, Stribling, Moore and Langford. Greater than Louis? "As goes the heavyweights, so goes boxing." On that pretext alone, JCC would have never had the chance.

JCC is alive and well. But is he acclaimed as the greatest ever produced by Mexico if Sanchez can be kept away from sports cars? [Sal's only vice is the one which killed him. Chavez competed two years longer than Sanchez was on this earth. Damned luck!]

Due to no fault of his own, we never saw JCC compete over the championship distance. He was debilitating enough that it might have further enhanced his resume by increasing his number of knockout wins and cutting down those 21 decision wins by a few. The draw between he and Whitaker might have produced a less controversial result if the championship distance had been in place for it. Does he lose his first match to Frankie Randall over the 15 round limit? Does he still draw against Miguel Angel Gonzalez in his final title bout at 140 over the championship distance?

Regardless, he was never an undisputed champion at any weight, got dethroned twice in the ring [something which never happened to Arguello], and no, I do NOT believe he measures up to the ATG whose previous 65 bout winning streak record JCC broke, three time Undisputed LMW and MW Champion Nino Benvenuti [who also produced an amateur 120-1 record en route to Olympic Gold and the Val Barker Cup at the same Rome games a young Cassius Clay took LHW Gold at]. Nino won two of three against Griffith in exchanging that World MW Title. Chavez dethroned nobody remotely of Emile's stature in winning his partial crowns.