Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

How many ranked wins does JCC have?

 

Chavez > Louis is literally the hipster take

 

Nahhhh putting old school fighters over modern is

 

Doesn't matter imo Chavez beat better fighters in more weight classes therefore he should be ranked higher P4P

 

I was just asking as a question it's not framing my thoughts as to who is greater.

 

**** no.

 

That's based on actual resume and achievements. Do tell me why Chavez belongs over Louis.

 

Maybe look up......

 

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing who those better fighters are.

 

I think you have trouble seeing anything that's not in black and white tbh. Its okay we can agree to disagree

 

Hey, just because I appreciate the classics doesn't mean I can't respect the modern (not that Chavez is that modern). I'm genuinely curious, who are those better fighters ?

 

Definitely Louis.

I have to walk back my resume only criteria for Louis, because some of the numbers regarding him are insane. For a start - from memory - he has 36 wins vs ranked fighters to 3 losses, only surpassed at heavyweight by Ali. At the time of Louis' first retirement, there had been 80 lineal heavyweight title fights. Louis had been in, and won, 26 of them, or 32.5%. He beat nearly a third of the former linear heavyweight champions. He was the 16th champion, and he beat the 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th as well as the 18th. From 1889 to 1948, that's 61 years from the first heavyweight title fight to Louis' first retirement. He was champion for 12 of those years, which is just shy of 20%.

The title reign itself is miraculous. At HW, longer reigns are both easier and harder. Losing your speed isn't as essential, but every punch is a chance to get KTFOd. Going for 12 years as champion is a) unheard of, and b) 25 defences is a ridiculous number at any weight.

Even outside just stats, his resume is great. A bunch of champions, like Walcott, Schmeling, Max Baer, Conn, Braddock, Primo, Sharkey and some very good contenders like Buddy Baer, Pastor, Farr, Godoy and Simon.

Top 15-20 for me, and Chavez just isn't in that class; and not especially close.

 

And yet you always pick the classics over the modern. (Not that there's anything wrong with that I'm sure many will say I'm the evil version of you)

Like in total or his best wins vs Louis's?
I'll say Rosario, Camacho, Ramírez and Taylor are better then any of Louis wins. And before you quote stats at me this is purely based on eye test and my assessment of their skill level. I'm much more impressed by the level of fighters that Chavez beat then Louis.

 

No need for stats, Chavez has no prayer there anyway. I prefer what I see from Walcott and Conn than those guys on film. Jimmy Bivins too, but he was washed by the time Louis beat him.

 

Walcott was inconsistent af and lost most of his big fights. Not to mention he couldn't even clearly beat a past it Louis. While he has his moments on film I've never been amazed by him seems more flash then substance and his record seems to support that. Conn was good but also a weight class smaller. I'm much more impressed by Taylor and Camacho in terms of fighters of similar style and they were actually around the same size as Chavez. (I believe Taylor might have actually been bigger but don't quote me on that)